Feminism sold a lie - Women, today, are worse off than ever

[ConservativeC2]

Listening to the women I work with, it's been interesting to hear their views about feminism and they are not happy. We are all millennial age so not too young, not too old and I keep hearing that it's the millennial generation of women that have absolutely lost out the most.

I think feminism initially promoted some idea of independence, equality and choice. Phrases like 'men hold all the money and power' at the time were very emotive whilst not entirely true. The correct statement then (and still now) is some men hold all the money and power. Most men back in the 50s-70s worked very long hours and spent pretty much all their money on their family. It was hard for everyone, but I think women were more empowered then than now.

In contrast to today, most of the women my age have to work. Whilst feminism promotes choice, most of them do not actually have a choice today. Most men today do not earn enough to run a household which means most women have to work. The worst part is they still do a larger share of the domestic work and childcare. So I think women now have it worse than ever - it's not just me, my female colleagues feel the same way. They've come to point in life where they want to start a family but they know they will have to come back to work.

Now it's all to do with feminism. There are other factors which has driven up the cost of living (inflation, property prices, profit extraction from multinational corporates etc).

A teacher…thanks but no thanks though! No way I’d return to being there daily for other people’s children to the detriment of my own, missing all their schools events…no way! I wouldn’t return for triple the money, genuinely.

I've been happily married for over 20 years, but it wouldn't occur to me to be proud of that. The reason I'm still happily married is partly that I chose the right person in the first place, but apart from that, the fact that I met him, and the fact that nothing's gone seriously wrong since then, are pretty much down to good luck. I'm still with dh because I want to be. I wouldn't stay in a bad or unhappy marriage just because of my wedding vows!

Hmmm, sounds like childcare falling onto other women in society? This is also a feminist issue, and guess what, also where feminism intersects with economics!

@ThankYouNigel So you're a qualified teacher? When was your last teaching job? I left after 20 years in last year so I know a bit about the role.

I can be proud of what I like. I’m proud of my husband, proud of our children, proud of my home and garden (people on here have a massive issue with someone enjoying having a well-maintained garden! 😂)

Im much prouder of all of the above than my first class degree, all my varied academic achievements and previous career successes. There’s just no comparison for me personally, I’m proudest of what I’ve achieved in my personal life. We are all different.

To add - if childcare in 2025 was affordable perhaps these mothers wouldn’t need to rely on others - perhaps the grandmothers wouldn’t need to shoulder the burden. Have we actually reached a better position for women, in particular those who choose to have families? I think not.

@MagicLoop Absolutely this. I've been married twice and zero regrets about getting rid of the first husband! Luckily having a career made this possible and far easier.

And where are the men, the fathers in all of this? Why should women have to have careers to protect themselves from this? Sounds like even more work for women — productivity has been upped. It’s exhausting. I am thankful however to have my own career and to be able to support myself… but I would like men to step up more.

@ThankYouNigel Indeed we are. I'm very proud of finding the bravery to leave my first husband and how well I managed on my own without any financial support from him. Because that was far harder than getting married.

I didn't say you couldn't be proud of whatever you like. I just said that being married isn't something it would occur to me to be proud of! I'm proud of my academic and other achievements and happy in my personal life.

@PeonyPatch My husband works as do I. I would expect nothing less.

Some of us are fortunate enough to have men who do step up plenty, but I agree that they seem to be in the minority.

Gosh, there’s such an air of superiority on Mumsnet isn’t there when posters show off how they’ve married a good man. Again, I’m glad and I’m happy for you but it does come across a bit grandiose.

@ThankYouNigel Did you mean "our" children, home and garden? Because clearly they're not just yours.

Yes you can. I absolutely do not agree that work that was traditionally women's work is less important. One of the biggest tragedies of history is the way that childcare, housekeeping and care of vulnerable and elderly adults has been derided as unskilled work that holds no economic value. This incredibly skilled and delicate work, mostly done by women, is incredibly undervalued. I absolutely support you if you're in a position to do it and that's what you want to do. But I don't want to do that, and nor does my husband. We run our house very competently in a way that allows both of us to get a share in working outside the home, home-making and parenting, and we are very happy that way. As a feminist, I'm not trying to take away what works for you. But I am saying that feminism is not the reason why some people who want to live the way you do can't.

I've been happily married for over 25 years, and with my DH for over 30. I don't think I have ever complained about him on MN. I'm very grateful for my marriage, of course, but I wouldn't say I'm proud of it.

I absolutely value my marriage and motherhood. I just happen to value my career and travel etc as well, and I'm deeply grateful for the fact that I didn't have to choose between these things.

It was very different for my mother's generation. She chose marriage and motherhood, and while she adored her family, she never quite got over her deep regrets about the life that she didn't live - the talents that she didn't use, the career that she gave up, the places that she never got to visit and the sense that she hadn't lived her life as fully as she could have done. Her sister, my aunt, made a different choice - she chose the path of a career and the opportunity to live abroad, but that meant that she didn't get married until her fifties and she never had her own children. And now she is old, she really feels the absence of children and grandchildren, and she has deep regrets about that too.

I feel incredibly fortunate that my own generation of women were encouraged to believe that we didn't have to make such difficult choices.

I'm not without feeling for the women of today, but I wonder how your mum thinks the pressures on women today compare to those they endured during the second world war.

Imagine raising a young family with rationing of food and clothes, bombs dropping in your town and a young husband off overseas in the way of danger. No equal pay, no sex discrimination act, rape in marriage not recognised, couldn't own property without a male guarantor, couldn't continue to work after marriage.

The pressure of social media doesn't really carry too much weight compared.

Things might not be easy for young women and mothers today but by God the weight of all that has gone before in terms of better legal protection and equality does them only good.

For balance — I think that feminism has definitely afforded women many many many benefits, such as being able to vote, get a bank account, mortgage etc… But I still think we have a long way to go in it being a fair and just society for women. Society still undervalues child rearing, care responsibilities, housework, all the unpaid labour that goes into supporting communities. I think what the OP is getting at is that despite the benefits that feminism has afforded us as women, we’re still just as exhausted, if not moreso in a different way.

I have spoken to both men and women who crave a simpler life.

It isn't at all about being "grandiose" at all. It is about trying to say to women that there is a choice. That it isn't inevitable that the domestic load should all fall at their feet. That they don't have to tolerate sexist men who don't pull their weight. Because there are other, better men out there.

Of course there is further to go. Each generation must continue the fight until true equality is achieved. Tremendous progress has been made, but more needs to be done.

The solution is not to give up and retreat into the inequalities of the past. It is to carry on pushing until we get there.

Not always — I think they’re in the minority @MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack andcsome women unfortunately do get manipulated into very bad relationships sadly 😢 I do think women have to take some responsibility in their choice of relationship, but I am cautious not to completely blame the woman really. I would like to see better education in schools on relationships, and better parenting of boys.

Coming late to this discussion but this notion that "feminism has failed" purely because its rare for a man to be able to support a household on one salary makes me absolutely despair.

The logic is all over the place here: the idea that the ability to be supported by your husband is the only gauge of whether feminism has been effective is laughably wrong.

Also: and just to take the most obvious examples:

• Right to vote
• Right to run for office
• Right to own property/have a bank account
• Right to not be discriminated against at work
• Right to autonomy over your own body
• Right not to be physically assaulted by your husband
• Equal pay
• Access to education

I could go on but you get the picture.

The idea that the right to put your feet up and spend all day cleaning your home is more important than these gains just shows how spoiled and entitled we have become.

The logic behind this nonsense reminds me very much of the antivaxx movement: it's collective amnesia: people who take for granted many of the hard-fought freedoms we have which women literally died for; very similar to people bleating on about vaccine injury because they've forgotten how awful polio was.

If you think being able to earn your own salary, being free to walk out of an abusive marriage, being able to own your own house and have autonomy over how many children you have makes you "worse off than ever" you don't deserve the vote.

So you would divorce him if he has a misfortune of becoming disabled? 🤔

Well yes, because feminism isn’t something that happened once and that’s it. , done. It’s an ongoing thing.Not just to keep improving things , but to keep all the rights we’ve gained before. Continuously. Like I said before, society never caught up.

Feminism never promised an easier life.

Of course, women sometimes end up in bad marriages through no fault of their own. That's why I have always encouraged my dd to ensure that she is financially independent...I would hate to see her trapped in an unhappy relationship because of money, like so many women often are.

It isn't about blaming women at all. It's about emphasising that they shouldn't feel that they have to put up with this shit.