Feminism sold a lie - Women, today, are worse off than ever

[ConservativeC2]

Listening to the women I work with, it's been interesting to hear their views about feminism and they are not happy. We are all millennial age so not too young, not too old and I keep hearing that it's the millennial generation of women that have absolutely lost out the most.

I think feminism initially promoted some idea of independence, equality and choice. Phrases like 'men hold all the money and power' at the time were very emotive whilst not entirely true. The correct statement then (and still now) is some men hold all the money and power. Most men back in the 50s-70s worked very long hours and spent pretty much all their money on their family. It was hard for everyone, but I think women were more empowered then than now.

In contrast to today, most of the women my age have to work. Whilst feminism promotes choice, most of them do not actually have a choice today. Most men today do not earn enough to run a household which means most women have to work. The worst part is they still do a larger share of the domestic work and childcare. So I think women now have it worse than ever - it's not just me, my female colleagues feel the same way. They've come to point in life where they want to start a family but they know they will have to come back to work.

Now it's all to do with feminism. There are other factors which has driven up the cost of living (inflation, property prices, profit extraction from multinational corporates etc).

Yes. I've often said that women are far worse off now than at any stage before. Women are no longer able to meet as a sex class. We are called 'birthers' and 'menstruators' and 'cervix-havers', at no stage in the past were we ever so dehumanised in words. We are back to the urinary leash times, we do not have a place we can pee or change our sanitary products or even change without the male sex there. Girls are staying home from school when on their period because boys in the toilets laugh at the 'sound' of them unwrapping pads, and also kick over the sanitary bin. We can no longer even request a female to do a pap smear, ffs! At no stage in history have women and girls been so dehumanised and disenfranchised of our basic dignity and basic human rights. give me the 70s and 80s and 90s back any day.

We can have it all and do it all but all of it is a hell of a lot to manage! Which is why we need men to have their revolution seeking part time work and time with their kids to make their marriages work and give their lives meaning.
Women asked for equality not to do everything! Too many women are frazzled and overloaded while their men are disengaged, unsupportive and ruining their own lives and their family’s lives. Might be biased based on my experience but I see the same everywhere.

I don't know where that poster lives but I recall her taking about her two large landscaped gardens. So I assume there's some inherited housing or similar unusual set up.

Agreed - I don’t know any household that can support a family on £45k a year 🙄

Gen X here - I am 51 and this is nothing new. I work full time with three kids and will do this until I am at least 60. My mother also worked as did her mother and this goes back generations.

I am putting three girls through university and they will also work.

I’ve always taught them that economic independence from a man is freedom and dignity. With your own income you can make choices about your life and in that way it would be better. My job is tough but still interests me and gives me satisfaction.

(however I will admit sometimes I look at friends who do not work and envy the time they have to do things like housework, gym, shopping!)

CAPITALISM sold the lie.

Feminism still recognises we're still fucked.

I'd love to know where all of these 50s - 70s men were who gave all of their money to support their families. They gave what they wanted to give & blew the rest at the pub & bookies. My memories of the 70s are of idle dictating men & women who worked their fingers to the absolute bone, & then still never refused an opportunity to earn a few pounds doing cleaning, ironing, sewing etc. My mother used to walk my little brother & I 2 miles each way to a book flex factory to get materials for making shopping bags. Those bags fed us, not the pittance she got from the big 70s man. And this was the norm where I lived (mining town), not the exception.

Yeah, capitalism has truly shat on us. Particularly those from previously excluded or vulnerable groups such as women, ethnic minorities or the disabled etc.

that I can get a termination safely and it be my choice to
That I can make the choice to divorce my ex husband
That I have equal pay
That my husband (if I was married now) could be charged with raping me
That there is support for me should I be the victim of domestic abuse or sexual violence
that I have maternity right and care leave rights
that I have laws to support me being treated as an equal to a man

wtf some need to read up on women’s history if they truly believe women and it better before

What has any of this to do wirh feminism? It is capitalism and economics

You are living in cloud cuckoo land if you think women acould stay home and live off men's wages in the past. Some richer ones might have but poor women have always had to work to earn money to make ends meet ( sometmes called pin money), married or not, they just had very very little choice about what work they could ( or were allowed to do) and what they would be paid

Of course things are better on many ways.

But I wish women could see that a lot of contemporary feminist thinking around sexual behaviour plays into the hands of men. This jumps out at me very strongly just reading MN!

I’ve been called a prude and uptight many times on here but I’m aware that having a shag with someone you’ve just met is rarely going to end well. It only works if you have a totally unemotional attitude to sex and see it as a bodily function, like going to the loo. I honestly don’t think many women have that attitude and being so available and accommodating is not in their best interest - it certainly suits the male agenda, though, and OLD in particular seems to have been designed with sexually unscrupulous men in mind.

Absolutely - in the 70s to 90s my dad spent money as he wished and my mum made an art form of making do on what he left. She ran his house, managed all the bills, looked after me and my grandparents and did all the admin for his self-employed work whilst tolerating and soothing his periodic outbursts of bad temper about her cooking and the fact that according to him she "didn't work". We had very little money and she and I had very few clothes until I started working part time. It took me years to work out that the reason we had so little money was because what we had was net of my dad's drink, fags etc.

What OP and others forget is that when you're a SAHM the quality of your life and mental health is completely dependent upon the temperament and ethics of the man who's keeping you. I am genuinely horrified that people who haven't experienced the sharp end of that lack the ability to imagine how shit it is.

This!

I’m also a millennial and completely agree with you op and have been saying the same as you for many years.

My friends who are also millennials are equally as burnt out and have had enough as me. 3 of us have really suffered with our mental health as we are simply trying to manage far too much.

All 3 have been forced to increase our working days from 3 to 5 days over the last couple of years too thanks to the cost of living crisis, and we were already struggling with managing everything then, but in hindsight our mental health was better than now and we had more time available for our children, Husbands and ourselves when we worked part time

2 out of the 3 of the marriages have really suffered too in this time as tempers are frayed and stress levels are high as everyone is knackered and as the houses are constant pigsties as no one has the time or inclination to clean and tidy properly so we can’t relax and enjoy our homes properly when we have any spare time.

2 nights running I have put a film on to watch with my family in the early evening during half term and have fallen asleep and started snoring very loudly apparently after around 30 minutes and have remained asleep on the sofa like this until the morning as I am simply so exhausted.

Feminism is supposed to involve choice, and I, like my friends have zero chance of choosing to not go to work, or to even do part time work anymore.

Oh fantastic, pack up everyone! We can cancel feminism, nothing bad ever happened to any of @Ubertomusic's ancestors, we're not needed anymore! No one else's lived experience or history matters, the centre of the universe has declared it so!

It’s never a waste leading your own family and community.

I doubt your grandmother ‘sat at home all day.’ Raising children, caring for grandchildren, caring for your spouse, caring for your own parents/ILs/any relative who needs practical or emotional help and contributing your time to your wider community is an incredible contribution to society. The fact that so many elderly people are sat alone with no visitors is a national disgrace.

Unfortunately, we undervalue this and are so impressed by women flying off into space or being footballers, rather than doing the essential care work which actually matters to society.

This makes me sad OP as you are dead right that I don’t think women have it easy now (I’m also a millennial). But it’s not because of feminism. The fact that it is perceived as possible for a woman to work full time, do all the household work and admin and spend the amount of time with her kids that’s deemed right is exactly what feminism should be looking at, as it’s a lie. To me that’s all about no one valuing women’s work.

But for generations women never had the option of anything but drudgery - I think there was a brief period in the mid century onwards where there were options to work outside the house and look after kids and have a good standard of living - ie my Mum’s generation. However her Mum had to leave school at 14 to look after brothers and sisters, then got married post war with no inside toilet, washing clothes for her kids by hand. Then had an autistic child with zero support in terms of schools or therapy and no community support or understanding really. That isn’t better.

Also I am currently a SAHM so I really do believe it’s a stressful lie that women can do everything - but that is not feminism’s fault!

My god, have you seen what happens in other countries in the world where they haven’t had feminism and women don’t have equality? Do you really think here would be any different? Absolutely deluded if you think men in the UK wouldn’t in general treat us all like slaves if they could get away with it again.

But yeah, feminism is why you’re stressed and finding it hard to live in 2025.

What abject nonsense. Who are these ‘most men don’t earn enough to cover household costs’ - you need to broaden your horizons. Certain social demographics in the UK are heavily benefits reliant, and there is a claimant mindset. Am I surprised modern women don’t fancy having kids with this lifestyle/man in mind? No. Does it concern me? No. Likely it’s for the best not to have kids, if you and your partner can’t see a way to cover the exorbitant costs. If you are degree educated, or just someone good a building friendships outside your network, you will find better dating opportunities within these pools. Women have more choice, although we still don’t have equal pay and the gender gap (particularly in c suite roles) suggests many women are still opting out of the boardroom.

Well said

The point was men could afford to run a household a long time ago and now then can't. This means women have to work to work to ensure all those costs are met. This was my point, they had the choice before and it's pretty much that they don't have the choice.

What an incredibly naive and privileged perspective. Poor women have always worked outside the home, and working class families have always struggled to make ends meet.
My GM is 90. She worked (cleaning, picking fruit, shop work) whilst raising 4 kids and looking after her elderly Mother who had Dementia, all of them squahed into a 2 bed terraced house. My GF was a Miner and worked evenings in a pub but GM still had to work. They never went hungry but there was absolutely no money for luxuries. They also had none of the modern conveniences or time saving devices we have now, so she had to wash all clothes for a household of 7 by hand for example. There was also, in those days, absolutely no expectation that Father's would do any parenting or domestic tasks whatsoever. Literally none. You honestly, truly think you are "worse off" than my Grandmother was?
Her own Mother was in service by the way, and her sister worked in a factory. This idea that women being expected to work is a recent thing is utter nonsense.

Do you really hanker after the days when women were the property of their Husbands? Or had no say whatsoever in whether they wanted children, or how many, since they couldn't access contraception and abstinence may not even be an option since it was perfectly legal for a man to rape his wife?
What about the fact that a woman could not get a divorce, but her DH could cast her aside on a whim and she would have no rights whatsoever since women could not legally own property or even open a bank account, and any wealth they did have pre-marraige became their DH's as soon as they married? I suppose you also think it was much better in the days when women had no say in who they married at all, as their Fathers would choose their Husband for them? And they just had to hope and pray that the man they were ordered to marry wouldn't beat them, since that was his right to do so if he felt like it.

You need to get a grip.

I am interested by this. So you think feminism is the reason for your life not working out as planned - it’s women’s fault for wanting equal rights?

You actually seem to want to be a SAHM, but you can’t afford to maintain the lifestyle you want on one income. You want to have a richer husband.

Or do you really not want to vote, not be able to go to university, not be able to buy a house, not be able to have a credit card in your name? Do you want your daughters to grow up in a world where men earn more than them, are better educated, have more rights, can harass and abuse them with no repercussions?

or are you just a bit stressed and tired and wish your husband did more around the house?

Well, some of my ancestor perished in concentration camps but you probably wouldn't consider it "bad". I was merely interested why your DH forced you to work by saying that the alternative would be being "owned" and dictated what to do. In reality, it wasn't necessarily so. And I don't see what you described as a feminist achievement, to me it looks like patriarchal threats, intimidation and exploitation "you better go and work 12 hours shift or else!" 🤷‍♀️

I don't agree with this.

I agree that women can't have it all at the same time. Everyone I know with kids outsources either childcare (by using a nursery), housework (by getting a cleaner) or work (by giving up or going part-time).

But I know multiple people whose husbands don't earn megabucks who have managed to be a sahm until their kids started school. One vicar, one youth worker, one warehouse worker. They live very frugally. Saved up before having kids. It depends what lifestyle you want.

Also, childcare is so expensive that it wasn't worth me working in the preschool years. I feel like that must be true for many people.

JFC. Feminism is the liberation of women and girls from Patriarchy. It’s the equality of the sexes. And in case you haven’t noticed there are many countries around the world where this hasn’t even been remotely achieved.

Taxation and policy on things like shared parental leave are the way forward to address the existing inequality of the emotional labour of rearing children.

I have been a lone parent for 15 years, I am a high earner and very grateful for all the rights women of history have fought for.

When I started in my male dominated industry I was like the rare animal in the zoo. Thankfully that has changed and it now reflects society.

Women in the west are more financially, politically and socially better off. Let’s not take our eye off the ball and start giving away our rights through a lack of resilience.