Cut ties because of their 2 year old sons behaviour?

[Iliveonabighill]

Shortly after my 2 year old was born, I made really good friends with another first time mum. Our husbands get on well too.
their son had always been very heavy handed, but now he is 2, his behaviour is not good. He will push my son over, puts his hands around my son’s neck, headbutt him. He can’t be left alone with any child- even if his parent is 1metre away or turns around to pick something up, he will hurt the other child.
the parents are very conscious of their son’s behaviour, and are desparate for it to stop, but it’s just getting worse. It doesn’t happen at his day care, but happens at all non-day care settings.
We are lucky that we have a good number of friends with kids the same age, and none of the other kids are like this. With others, us parents can sit on the sofa and watch the kids play from a few metres away- obviously intervening/ joining in where necessary.
Its got to the point where I don’t want my son to play with this child any more because
a) the other kid doesn’t play with my son in a nice way anyway
b) I can’t stand to see someone take repeated swipes at my son, constantly. And I don’t want to have to be my sons bodyguard while the other child is around.
c) I don’t really enjoy seeing the parents anymore because we can’t even have a conversation because they are CONSTANTLY having to tell their son no, stop, etc.

i feel bad for this because it’s unlikely to be the child’s fault- I don’t know if he has a neurodevelopmental issue or if it’s the result of the way he’s been brought up.

anyway, AIBU to cut ties because of their child’s behaviour? It would make me sad, because I really really get on with the parents, but I can’t have my son treated like this.

you are being unreasonable = you should continue to be friends with this family
you are NOT being unreasonable = you should cut ties.

I think it is reasonable to step back so your son is not at risk of being hurt.

But why is it necessary to "cut ties"? In all likelihood the issue will pass, and it seems a bit drastic to me to cut them off. Just excuse yourself from the next few invitations. It may fizzle out, or there may be an improvement. If she raises it, i think it's fine to say you understand her DS is having a phase of being very physical and it is something you find stressful - but only if she actually asks.

As much as sensing people were stepping back would upset me as the boy's mum, I would find being told a friend was "cutting ties" quite devastating. It's very final and very extreme.

I would just phrase it that the kids aren’t getting on at the moment so let’s give them both a break by not getting them together for a while. In the meantime shall we meet up on the evening.

I would carry on seeing them socially but without any of the DC.

That’s probably the parents lying or in denial as they are scared of losing their connection to OP

Sounds like the parents could do with speaking to the childcare setting and ask what they do to manage behaviour, if he is only lashing out when with them.

I wouldn’t cut ties, but I wouldn’t be rushing to make plans with them them until he is a bit older and can be reasoned with

Your friendship is not worth more than than your child’s safety cut ties.

Of course YANBU for stopping the children spending time together.

I wouldn't want my child being manhandled and I wouldn't want them adopting the poor behaviour.

It's interesting he behaves at nursery. Sounds like he knows his parents have loose boundaries, so the behaviour will be accepted by them but not in his care setting 🤔.

@Iliveonabighill I had a friend from the postnatal group (our eldest were the same age) who's daughter was obsessed with my youngest, would grab him and pull him around, treat him like a doll. I had to ask, all the time, for my friend to pull her daughter off him. The friend would not prevent the situation by watching her daughter and would laugh it off while my youngest who was only a crawling baby, would be hiding under the table or behind the sofa. It was up to me to watch them to protect him. I just got sick of it, it was making my life more difficult because she didn't want to manage her child. I let the friendship drift in the end. Not every friendship stands up to difficulties like this. Sometimes you need to put your own kid and sanity first.

He's 2 not a baby. They might be trying to stop him but why is it he behaves in day care and is probmatic out of it?
So many parents, not saying this is the case, let their kids run feral and misbehave under the excuse 'He's only exploring /playing/being creative'
Yeah, because I really want your kid trashing my home and scribbling felt pen over my walls while the doting parent smiles indulgently watching them and moaning at me because I have to tell them off.

Been there, had to do it, mum cried and said I was mean to her little angel- she was 5 ffs, as I was kicking them out of my home.
My kids had their moments and 2 ND but even so they didn't go beating each other up or trying to strangle their siblings.

Why don’t you just see the parents separately when you aren’t with your children? Otherwise you are saying you expect the child to grow out of the behaviour, the parents are aware and doing what they can, but you want to ditch them anyway.

Ah I didn't mean it to sound so dramatic! "Stepping back" would have been a better way for me to phrase this.

Your job as a parent is to protect your child, have his back. You need to stop subjecting him to this child. Actually I think his parents would understand.

Here's the thing: being punched by an ND child isn't any less painful than being punched by a neurotypical child.

Yes, of course children have to understand that not all children are the same. It's really easy, in fact, to explain that to them. But that absolutely doesn't mean they have to play with children who repeatedly physically hurt them.

'Danny is neurodivergent and he finds some things quite difficult. He isn't a nasty boy - he just doesn't always understand how to be gentle, and that isn't his fault' is a reasonable message to give to a neurotypical child.

'Danny is neurodivergent and he finds some things quite difficult. He isn't a nasty boy - he just doesn't always understand how to be gentle, and that isn't his fault. That means you have to put up with him hurting you whenever we see him because being kind means you have to let some people hit you all the time' is not a reasonable message to give to a neurotypical child (or, in face, a neurodivergent one).

The needs and feelings of an neurotypical child are not less important than the needs and feelings a neurodivergent one.

It blows my mind how many people say that a parent should allow their toddler to be physically hurt, over and over, by another child to ‘be kind’ and not risk upsetting a grown adult. Horrifying really, the message that’s sending your child. Put up with anyone physically assaulting you not to rock the boat.

There may well be reasons for this child’s behaviour but that doesn’t make it the OP’s responsibility to offer up her toddler as a punchbag ffs. Surely the very first job as a parent is to protect your child from
physical harm?! It’s negligent and horrible parenting to continue exposing them to a child who is repeatedly hurting them.

Yes, I think stepping back is quite reasonable. While I feel sorry for them, they have to accept other people don't want their children getting whomped, and it is your job as his mum not to expose him to that knowingly.

But I'd try to be sensitive in the way you do so, to minimise the hurt they will feel. I don't think a big declaration or announcement is necessary, but try to have a softly worded explanation for stepping back a bit ready in case they ask - and I don't think it needs to be phrased as a final position on the friendship going forward.

I find it odd that this happens in every single setting except for nursery, if the trigger is other children. As it, it would happen in a park where 2 year olds would play largely separately e.g. going on the swings/slide together? For some kids, both other people playing with their toys and the excitement of other people's toys are hugely stressful. I'd try neutral ground outside first.

It sounds like the parents are trying to manage it, so I'd perhaps skip hang outs for a couple of months (Xmas a perfect window for this because you can claim busy-ness) and try again. He'll probably be out of that phase.

One of my sons was a biter at that age. God it was a nightmare. I had to police him at all times and could NEVER relax around other parents/children because he could so quickly turn for a bite!

If she's trying to manage the behaviour, the odds are it will improve (my son is a perfectly cheerful and normally behaved 4 year old).

I tried to meet others mostly at playgrounds where the kids weren't in such close proximity. I really appreciated those friends who worked with me so that we could still see each other. I did understand that it wasn't as relaxing so was ok with the fact thay I saw most friends less often. Im glad that they are still my friends and now my son is older and understands such things are wrong they play together nicely.

So obviously you should not feel you hav to put your son in a position that is uncomfortable for him. Talk to your friend. Explain that the children arent playing well together at the moment (she'll know what you mean) so you're giving them a bit of a break from each other to reset and you're looking forward to seeing them again in a few months. That way you're not destroying a friendship for what will presumably just be a phase.

Why would your first reaction to be to cut ties? It’s fine not wanting to meet with the DC (you have to protect yours child) but why don’t you drop the mum a message saying you can see it’s really hard for them and all the effort must be exhausting and does she want to get a coffee/glass of wine without the DC at some point?

Agree with this.
You can't let another child put his hands on your son's neck and head butt him. Maybe be honest and say you'd love them to play again when their son has grown out of it. In the meantime 'let's meet up without the boys'.

Keep your kid away from him but explain it to the parents and say if you can still see them without DC you will be keen to do so.

I had a very similar situation with a new mum friend’s DS - as soon as he turned 2 it was like he flipped a switch inside. Like your friend the child was well behaved at nursery but outside of nursery it was relentless attacking of other children including my DC, including biting, hitting, spitting, hair pulling, pinching, pushing over, snatching toys and smacking other children in the face/over the head with it, grabbing other children’s food and eating it or throwing it on the ground and standing on it, trying to grab children’s eyes, and loads more biting.

And that was just attacking other children - at home the behaviour was just dire. Mum friend would just smile and ignore the behaviour, and he was never reprimanded or had any kind of consequence whatsoever.

I reduced contact subtly but quickly - my child could not be her child’s punching bag - and by the time they were 5 we rarely saw them anymore. I heard that his behaviour had not improved by the time he started school and he was still biting. I do wonder about ND as well as poor parenting but I wasn’t willing to put my child in harm’s way any longer.

I would suggest that you offer to meet the parents for adult-only evening meals out etc, and if the mum pushes just say you don’t think the kids are getting on at the moment.

As the parents ARE trying I think you would be unnecessarily harsh to cut ties. It might be that you have to say to your friends that when you're all together you have to take turns to be on Joey-duty or whatever, but to cut ties seems unkind. A friend had a similar issue with her DD, and DH and I were always very impressed with how militant she was about keeping a very very close eye on her DD, at ALL times and yes, she did stop doing it (and yes, she has both ADHD and ASD as it turns out).

Quite possibly but in the meantime its pretty stressful watching your child get hurt or be on constant watch for it

do you all meet at certain times of the day more often than others? Are there times of day that he is harder work than others, or some places where he does it more?
It might be possible to still be able to manage him so that your friend isnt just cut off. She needs to be able to work out what her kid can cope with and what he cant.
Sounds like he definitely isnt the sort of kid that can just be left to play with other kids, and he needs someone hovering over him - so a load of mums catching up and having coffee while the kids play is not going to work. Or it might be ok for short periods but not when its coming close to nap time or whatever.
He might be ok in a soft play centre or in a park, or at a toddler group, but not just doing free play in someone elses house?

It will be different when hes in childcare because he will have adults focusing on the children and not just trying to catch up with their friends. The staff there will probably also have a more rounded idea of what is normal behaviour in that age group and that it can change according to the environment

Just meet up without the kids - or at very structured activities where he won't have the opportunity to do anything.

If you value their friendship it's very shallow to decide you don't like them any more because of the fact their child is struggling to behave. Unless they're sitting there egging him on! It sounds like that's not the case and they are trying to manage his behaviour.

OTOH if the friendship is only for your son's benefit then it makes sense to stop seeing them. But in that case I would not count them as friends, and I don't think it's a very supportive way for you (as a friend) to behave towards them.