Ex sharing bed with 9 year old daughter?

[InappropriateSleep]

My Ex and I divorced this year. Long story short he is an emotional abusive, sexually coercive, cheat and all round horrible bastard who hates me with a fiery passion as I had the audacity to dump him.

As part of the divorce, I am the resident parent and he refused to set a contact schedule so sees the children when it suits him.

He has recently bought a house, he deliberately chose one with only 2 bedrooms but we have 2 children: DS14 and DD9. There were plenty of other 3 bedroom options within his price range nearby but he chose this one.

He has given our son the bedroom (has always favoured son and treats him like a mate) and he expects my daughter to sleep in his bed and he’ll sleep on the couch. I raised concerns about this when he first communicated this to me as my daughter is going through puberty with all the associated body changes (a lot further along than her peers) and needs privacy and her own space. He basically told me it’s none of my business.

This weekend, it turns out my Ex shared his bed with our daughter rather than sleep on the couch. I’m not saying he’s a paedo but I don’t think it’s appropriate and told him so. If the shoe was on the other foot, I wouldn’t share a bed with my son who is also neck deep in puberty.

Obviously my dislike of the man may be clouding my view but what do you think?

I have told him if he is unable to provide appropriate sleeping arrangements for DD then maybe we should pause overnights until he can.

this is tricky
perhaps you could suggest child inclusive mediation to problem solve this?

have you specifically said to him she’ll start her periods soon and will be embarrassed if she bleeds on you? What have you got for her there?
how would she feel about doing day visits there and not staying overnight?
don’t assume that she was forced to bed share if she didn’t tell you , maybe he was reading her a story and she cuddled up to him and they both fell asleep?
a man I dated last year (nice man) had a 7 and 9 year old daughter and since his divorce they’d fallen asleep by him cuddling them
both in his bed (he usually did pick them up and move them into their own beds after, but they came back to his in the morning) I think this is sweet when the girls weren’t in their usual home with mum they wanted to feel safe and secure cuddled up to their dad.
however, if you feel that she is uncomfortable you can just say no to overnights until he confirms in writing she’ll have her own room to sleep in that night (and three strikes and he’s out if he doesn’t honor that). If he bothers to take you to court cafcass will interview her, by then she’ll be 10 and starting periods and have breasts etc so they will be on her side.
I think that the son should have a single bed in dad’s bedroom, and the daughter should have her own room too.

I don’t think it’s inappropriate for a dad to sleep in the same bad as a daughter if the daughter is fine with it. My 16 year old will often sleep in with my DH if I’m out or away and always has done. She crawls in with me too if DH is out or away.

What is inappropriate is her not having a room and bed of her own that she can sleep in if she chooses to.

I thought that courts expected that as a minimum before granting overnight access to non-resident parents?

"he is an emotional abusive, sexually coercive, cheat and all round horrible bastard"

Surely the issue here is not the fact a 9 yo is bed sharing with her father but who this particular father is and his previous and current abusive behaviour towards op and his children.

I'd report it to be honest op. Have you ever reported his abuse towards you before? Is there any record of that?

No way this is not fair on dd at all.

Sharing a bed with a parent for most kids is a choice they make (crawl into parents bed in the middle of the night or can’t fall asleep in own room etc).
Sharing a bed with a parent on holiday or because of a one off reason at home (room being decorated) can be exciting as it’s new/ different.

Your dd in this situation has no choice, may not be feeling excited (if she ever felt excited) and is likely feeling so out of place it’s really sad.

For all the posters asking what dd thinks or says about this, please remember she is a 9 year old little girl (in year 4 or 5) and will know what’s going on between her parents. She is very unlikely to ‘rock the boat’ and complain about anythIng for fear of making it worse. Instead she will likely keep quiet. Poor thing probably lies awake at night terrified she will start her period.

I feel so sad for her with the other bits you’ve said about dad and ds too.

All those saying it’s inappropriate, I feel sorry for you. The only way it would be is if you don’t trust that your partner isn’t a perv!

And all those saying it’s appropriate for a prepubescent girl about to start her periods having no choice but to share a bed with her father needs to have their heads checked.

Given the circumstances and the fact that he doesn't treat you (and probably other women) with respect, I think it is a concern. I think she should have her own bed absolutely. How to handle it is another thing. I think what you told him is perfectly reasonable

‘Smelly man’

Grow up.

Yes, she needs to have her own bed.

Staying with two males (regardless whether she is related to them) and not having the opportunity to sleep in her own bed and get changed in private is very wrong for a 9 yo girl.

It contradicts safe messages about her body.

9 is on the cusp of being inappropriate for me. But it's obviously contextual, for example you aren't there, you've said he was sexually coercive to you, you are worried about it etc.

As others have said, the bigger issue is that she hasn't got her own space and this isn't an arrangement she will likely want to continue.

For me, he either sorts appropriate sleeping arrangements, or he doesn't have the kids overnight at all.

I hear you loud and clear.
Me too.
Please don't let this continue.
Take it back to the family courts.
He should have made provisions for his daughter like he did for his son.

Staying with two males (regardless whether she is related to them) and not having the opportunity to sleep in her own bed and get changed in private is very wrong for a 9 yo girl.

This. Your dd has no private space in that house. Sharing on a one-off or on hols is one thing. your daughters bed in her father's home being his bed too is not right. And no, you don't need to go to perv (amazing how many of them out there though so maybe we should go there) but you can go to refusing to recognise a girl's need for space, disrespect for his own daughter, favouritism of his son and generally being a big fucking creep.

I don't know what to advise you OP but I would not be happy with my dd being in that situation. And when her periods start I would simply refuse overnights and let him take you to court. Possibly this is what he wants.

I sometimes wonder what is actually wrong with some parents that they lay waste to their relationships with their children so easily.

@InappropriateSleep
I agree with you.
Crucially, I think it's important that the significance of @Leopardspota 's final sentence really sinks in:
"He’s making her feel like shes kicking him out of his room which is totally unfair and inappropriate that she will feel some pressure to ask him to sleep in the bed."

Incidentally, even if your daughter expresses no qualms about the bed situation (at the moment), for her sake YOU NEED to be her advocate.

As a general principle, there is nothing inherently bad about a father sharing the bed with his primary-aged daughter. In this case, though, you have several valid concerns.

As she doesn't like staying there anyway, why make her? You don't have a court order - but even if you did, she's old enough to state her own preference.

I don't think I'd like it either.... but I'm aware that makes me a huge hypocrite as my DD10 and DS8 often get in my bed with me 😅

My 11yo son was in bed with me and DH the other night. I don't see anything wrong with it.

I’d probably seek legal advice about what you can do when she’s older. Hif she refused to go what would he make of that? Ok imo at 9, bit what about when she’s a bit older???

so there’s that.
Secondly if she doesn’t want to go because he’s treating her poorly compared to her brother, I’d take notice of that now and I think at this point that should be your main concern - that’s not ok at all and will be very upsetting for her. I think the lack of ‘space’ for her at her dads is likely reflected in this aswell- is she really welcome there??? It’s a shitty thing to do to treat one child well and the other as a sort of third wheel which he has done by not getting her a bedroom. Seems v odd to me that he’s done that. Is it also some sort of horrible control over women thing. If she doesn’t want to go; I would be saying ok and doing something nice together on those weekends. I’d also do my best to educate my son on how men can behave well towards women so his shitbag dad wasn’t his strong ‘example’ to follow.

well done on getting out. You’ve absolutely done the right thing by the sounds of it! X

Also crucial and very correct from the poster above when they say ‘he is making her feel pressure for him to sleep in the same bed’ - I absolutely agree with this. He’s given her no space of her own; deliberately. It says what he thinks of her. Even more apparent when you compare with how he has considered the set up for your son.. seems a tiny bit innocent on the surface but actually it’s deeply disturbing- and not in an inappropriate way but more about control, dominance and what he really thinks of women, including his own daughter. It’s a hell of a message to send to her actually.

youve missed the point - it’s not about him being a perv or necessarily sexual abuse.
Its about what he’s really saying to her by the fact he has not given her some space of her own at his house - one of her ‘homes.’
It says she is not worthy of it, but her brother is; it says that in a group where there are men, she comes second even where her basic & essential needs (like sleeping) are concerned. That this is not relevant for her general health and well being, but it would be if she was a boy like her brother. It says that she doesn’t need privacy, doesn’t need anywhere personal to have her own agency, to keep any of her possessions properly, that she doesn’t get the access to those details; because she’s a girl unlike her brother.
It says she is not really welcome, unless it’s on her dads (a man’s) terms.

And these big messages are being fed to her by her Dad- the one man who she should be able to really trust and the first man in her life who she knows well and will use to develop her understanding of her self worth, peoples’ roles within families and male-female relationships.

If you can’t see what’s wrong with that, I really really hope you have no daughters!

It is bloody weird - and that's the least of it.
I'd contact social services / cps and raise concerns with details about how he was in your marriage and how he continues to be. Insisting she sleep in his bed and then just decide to share the bed with her is creepy AF.
Always err on the side of an abundance of caution.

I would imagine that was just an odd night.

OP's DD is not going to be 9 for ever.

The fact her brother has a bedroom and she doesn't even have her own bed is also significant.

Oh dear we were in a hotel last month and DS 12 shared with me while DD 10 shared with her dad - all in the same room

They both still climb into bed with us

none of us are paedos

unless there is some info missing I don’t see anything wrong with this

She should have her own space and own room though which is the real issue

"Long story short he is an emotional [sic] abusive, sexually coercive, cheat and all round horrible bastard"

Did you miss that part?