Marriages don’t last anymore because..

[PictureImperfect]

Had a debate with an colleague about why divorce seems so much more common now.

They said that in past generations, couples stayed together because they wanted to work through things and were more committed to making relationships last. I said I think it’s mainly because women have more freedom and independence now. Yes, most of the childcare still falls on women, but that was even more true in the past. Back then, loads of women didn’t have the opportunity to work full time and build careers like their husbands, so they relied on them for financial stability. Now that women can provide their own stability, they’re simply less likely to tolerate an unhappy marriage.

To me, that just seems like basic common sense but my colleague laughed and said I was completely wrong. According to them, people today just can’t be bothered to put in the effort and treat relationships as disposable. They also scoffed when I said women still don’t have the same opportunities as men.

It’s had me thinking, I honestly thought this was just obvious, but now I’m wondering what others think. AIBU, or is my colleague?

alot of women are no longer stuck financially anymore as we have forged our way into good working careers.

women also have a lot more say and choice now

many years ago only men’s wages were used to calculate mortgages even if the wife worked part time.

also women are getting better at knowing their limits and what they want out of relationships.

men don’t rule the roost anymore as much as they used to although my in laws are a perfect example of why it was such an awful time for wives decades ago and it blows my mind that mil accepts things how the are. She has no say in anything,no backbone and is just quietly in the back ground doing everything while fil grands it around thinking he’s the dogs bollox.
not in my world 🌍

I get that some travel is required, but from what you’ve said, it sounds like your husband’s company could have been more flexible. They could’ve suggested a shorter trip with the option to join essential meetings remotely. Even with time zones, I’m sure she’d have preferred the odd early call over being away from her kids for nearly a month. It’s that old ‘that’s how it’s always been!’ mindset, and they ended up losing someone who was, as you said, head and shoulders above the rest.

It’s nice that your husband values being present with his team, but that’s all it is.. nice. His visibility a handful of days a year isn’t essential to the success or safety of the work.

Maybe I see it differently because my dad was away with work for over half the year when I was growing up, and it just became normal that he wasn’t there. Whereas my DH and I split parental leave and both reduced our working hours to share childcare. When I mentioned my dad’s old working pattern my DH said he wouldn’t even consider a 4 week trip away from our DC, never mind several a year. It could be anecdotal but I think it’s because from the start, our kids have been just as much his responsibility as mine. Whereas for my mum, it all fell on her, my dad wasn’t around enough to grow attached to us in the first place to consider being separated from us an issue.

Not the point of the thread but this blatently bollocks. I had dinner on Thursday with a group of professional women from my work, without exception they continued their professional training including exams with small children. This is a dangerous narrative which encourages women to postpone motherhood to the limits of their fertility window. There is actually a good argument to get on with it, so you can be hitting your stride in your late 30's/early 40's unencumbered with small children.

I totally get where you’re coming from. My husband has always worked away to a lesser or greater degree and like your mum the day to day childcare etc fell on me. I was a STAHM and pre school depending on where he went and for how long we’d join him. When he was home he was very hands on with the children and does accept he missed out on a lot especially once they started school and it was more difficult to travel with him. In the ex employees case the trip was to Australia to support the onsite team as there was problems.

What part of my post was confusing?

Two people working together, as a team, wouldn't end up in your grandmother's situation.

But when one person (often the man) doesn't work as a team but instead resorts to addiction/abuse/violence/infidelity - then what? Keeping off TikTok isn't going to protect women from men who sell themselves as something they are not and who wait until their wife is nicely tied down with kids before showing their true face...

No amount of teamwork can fix a relationship if only one part of the team is doing the work. You and people on this thread like you fail to acknowledge the real problem, which is that as a cohort, men have not adapted to the times we live in now - when women have their own funds, when women are able to live happily and independently, when in short men have to step up, do their share at home and not be lazy gaming obsessed man-children.

You didn't read my post did you . .

"Divorce is easy. No shame or sigma anymore."

I am glad there is now no shame in leaving an abusive partner.

I read your original post where you ranted about TikTok and said people don't do working at it any more, and I didn't buy it then. I also don't buy it now.

I also read the post where you seem to believe that divorce is always bad for the children - I didn't buy that one either.

It's complicated, like life. But if the choice is between where we are now and where we were in 1950, I say kick that time machine into a ditch.

@BoredZelda "Respect for women now is far better than it has ever been."

Really ?

Have you read the Relationship Boards lately ?

There are females being distressed because their husband spends a lot of time watching porn on his phone. Females feeling inadequate because they aren't prepared to engage in the acts seen on porn videos and wanting to know if they are "normal".

Guys getting unpleasant because females won't have a "Home Date" fast enough.

etc etc

Having done that, I have to disagree. There are a lot of things which would not be tolerated any more (not safe in taxis senior managers for example), but I was never spoken to the way young women tell me they are. And hearing young men from the high school up the road when they are walking past is horrifying (they often dont see me if I me bent over weeding the garden). I have never been choked during sex, never asked for anal, never expected to do a lot of things which are presented as standard.

Yup. One thousand percent. Porn has set women back by decades. Or made male attitudes towards women even worse than they've ever been. Remember the days when the only porn men could access was sealed top-shelf magazines? They had to have the nerve to ask for them. And what was inside them was really tame compared to today's online porn. Those days seem so innocent now. What's available online is utterly revolting and I am so sad that it's legal.

Both people in a couple have to work hard though and if one of them can't be arsed, then it's not going to work over the long term. Sadly, there are still far too many men who think just being there and going to work is enough, and it really isn't. Women aren't wrong to expect more from their partner than that and to end things if he won't or can't deliver. Life is too short to spend it with a twat, especially a low-earning, miserable, sport/hobbies obsessed one, who's bad in bed and expects to be waited on hand, foot and finger!

What time machine?

I think pay and earning is a big issue. I earn twice what my husband does (almost) and he hates it. I don’t care and view it all as our money but he gets upset about it.

Is that really true, though? Most people's marriages are very dear to them, and I don't think having a big wedding makes that less true.

To be fair, though, the reason for the marriage ending might easily be something quite private and embarrassing, and they'd rather say there's no spark than tell you the truth. How do you say to your relatives "He can't get it up anymore unless it's for anal, and I can't put up with that?" or "He dresses in my underwear and it makes me feel sick" etc.

Society hasn't caught up yet, has it? During the time that my marriage was crumbling, I did everything possible to support my husband - he was miserable in his job, so I suggested that he find something else, probably part time, because I was in a good job and earning well and we were financially fine. He openly admitted he would not and could not do that because he had been raised to be 'the provider'. That mindset needs to go.

What evidence do you have for people not taking marriage seriously enough? What makes you think that most people's marriages aren't very dear to them and that they fight tooth and nail to keep them together before admitting defeat in utter exhaustion? Interested to know how you have come to this conclusion.

I suppose the answer to this is, if you divorce for personal happiness, it's seen as selfish because you're hurting the other person and putting yourself first at their expense. I suppose in the instance you're describing, people think you should be trying to rekindle the happiness you once had and are puzzled as to why you can't, if your partner is willing and is a good person with no issues.

I'm not sure how I feel about your reasons for divorcing. On the one hand, if you have a decent partner who is willing to put in the work, then it's hard to see why divorce is OK. But on the other hand, life is very short, and I don't think people should spend their one life feeling unhappy.

It's definitely a less clear-cut issue than when a spouse is clearly an utter twat in some way/ways who refuses to change.

In the 1970s and 80s in the US, men who didn't pay child support had their photos put on the milk cartons! 🤣 Sometimes in newspapers and on public buildings, too.

It’s so strange isn’t it. DH says he isn’t upset I earn more but that I pay for more things. Which to me is the same thing really. We earned similarly until about 5 years ago when my career took off.

The mindset is definitely broken and as you say needs to change.

I totally agree- how many women are going to say ‘I’m fed up of his secretive porn use ‘ or ‘he’s been sexting Random’s’ or ‘he leaves skid marks in his boxers’ etc etc - especially if kids still on the scene and even then some don’t want adult children to know the ins and outs of a split -

I definitely don’t think that people worked harder at relationships in the past, as in actual work - like self reflection, reading books about relationships, going to therapy etc - that is all modern day stuff. I think people put much more effort into analyzing and making efforts to make changes these days in fact.
however in the olden days people had far lower expectations of their partners to make them happy and so they were more likely to plod on with an unhappy or unfulfilling partnership.

Exactly. Some people really don't improve with age - quite the opposite. I think men really go through a reckoning as they age and lose strength and virility...and some take it out on their wives.