Marriages don’t last anymore because..

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Had a debate with an colleague about why divorce seems so much more common now.

They said that in past generations, couples stayed together because they wanted to work through things and were more committed to making relationships last. I said I think it’s mainly because women have more freedom and independence now. Yes, most of the childcare still falls on women, but that was even more true in the past. Back then, loads of women didn’t have the opportunity to work full time and build careers like their husbands, so they relied on them for financial stability. Now that women can provide their own stability, they’re simply less likely to tolerate an unhappy marriage.

To me, that just seems like basic common sense but my colleague laughed and said I was completely wrong. According to them, people today just can’t be bothered to put in the effort and treat relationships as disposable. They also scoffed when I said women still don’t have the same opportunities as men.

It’s had me thinking, I honestly thought this was just obvious, but now I’m wondering what others think. AIBU, or is my colleague?

Please link this research. I’ve never come across any research papers from reputable sources indicating that this is the case so I would be very interested to read it.

Literally dozens of them, laying the blame at the door of the welfare state for loneliness, divorce, even fertility rates! For obvious reasons I can't give you all the references to the authorities I have read, as I don't keep notes of it, but a perfunctory search on Google would point you in the right direction. This is just the one example and you can look up the list of literature at the end of the article

doi.org/10.1080/03585522.2025.2477540

I Googled this, and most of this comes from an organisation called New Right. Which is exactly what it says it is. If you dig a little deeper, it becomes clear that there isn't a single determining factor for divorce rates being as they are and that it is, as always, complex.

Of course if there is reputable peer reviewed research that overwhelmingly says it's all due to the welfare state, I will stand corrected. But I'm not holding my breath.

Sorry, reading back to front - just answered your question in the threadbelow

That's an interesting study, but it doesn't say that it's all about the welfare state - just that it is a significant factor. Female employment and the reduction in the male/female wage gap in Sweden are also in there.

And crucially, the paper takes a neutral view of whether this is a good thing or not, but it does highlight that the changes have allowed women to leave unhappy marriages. Which, I hope, we can all agree is a good thing.

Of course you are talking about 'laying the blame', so you may disagree.

I agree, although I would caveat that by saying that men in the 1950's wouldn't have spoken to women the way they do now. I'm not looking through rose tinted glasses and course there were vile, sexist pigs in the 50's (and every era). But I firmly believe that access to 24/7 porn has greatly increased men's disrespect of women and the impunity with which they express it.

I agree, although I would caveat that by saying that men in the 1950's wouldn't have spoken to women the way they do now.

They absolutely would have. They'd just have done it behind closed doors.

Some people are more interested in a big show off wedding than actual marriage.

I don’t see why a marriage ending is seen as a “failure”. Sometimes a marriage simply reaches it’s natural end.

I always think health of a marriage is more important than length. Also greater female autonomy and less stigma mean women can leave marriages where they are not happy / feel there is an uneven labour. I remember my mom telling me when my grandmother left my grandfather she had to plan for ages as she had zero financial support. And even though he was violent and a womaniser when she filed for divorce she still moved away from the neighbourhood because of how much social criticism she received!

@JHound. I see the ending of a marriage as a failure - surely everyone enters into a marriage with the intention of it being for the rest of their lives? If that doesn’t happen, for whatever reason, then I think it is a failure.

Is just staying in a marriage a success? Most people could have successful marriages by that token if they are willing to put up with anything.

You mean as in the men leave but dont file?

Thanks this is interesting.

Not at all. People need to work hard to have successful and happy marriages. If they’re not prepared to commit to doing that, I don’t see the point in getting married.

I agree so much with all this.

And the making better choices thing...I guess they've never experienced love-bombing. Or had a front-row seat at a man's mid-life crisis. My friend's husband was so in love with her when they got married, and about a decade on, he changed completely. Drinking heavily, affairs, trouble with the law...horrendous. Of all the couples who I thought might get divorced, they were pretty much the last one I'd have expected. Then there's another couple in that group where the husband is a serial cheater and has been since before they married and had kids, and twenty years on they're still together!!

Sometimes I really think that staying together isn't any indicator of marital quality at all.

Yes, the cognitive dissonance is immense, and yes, the smugness is somewhat tempting fate. I suppose it's to stave off the fact that we know, deep down, we have no control of our marital fate. You can be the best spouse in the world, but ultimately you are only 50% of the equation. Marriage is a truly enormous risk. I had no idea how much, when I got married.

I see it in a far more nuanced light, but then I would because my marriage ended due to my husband's addiction and concomitant abusive behaviour. If there was failure, it was his - I can hand on heart say I did everything humanly possible to help him, which resulted in my staying in the marriage too long.

It's actually typical male behaviour. It happens in relationships at all ages - the men behave incredibly badly so that the women break up with them - making it All Their Fault and making her The Crazy Ex.

I used to think that, too.

I was in an abusive marriage and then was left by my abuser. I would not have left, because I had swallowed all the lines about divorce being a failure etc. and that you just have to work on it.

Being on the other side if an abusive marriage, it doesn't feel like a failure, it feels like a rebirth. It feels cleansing and like a second chance at peace. I think if your marriage is truly toxic, as mine was no matter what I did, then divorce is a very healthy choice.

I know that there are people who will judge me, as is clear on this thread. They think I've failed or that I didn't try hard enough. And that's fine, I don't care at all, because they have NO idea what they're talking about. Or what went on behind closed doors. If judgement when I meet people is the price to pay for my rebirth, that's OK. And it really does feel like a rebirth. To live without being bullied all the time, it's absolute bliss.

Nowadays, I think it's a pity that so many people remain trapped in bad marriages because of all the stigma and judgement. We can see from this thread that it still exists. Bad marriages that cannot be improved because one party is seriously flawed are VERY bad for your health. Both mentally and physically. We should be encouraging these kinds of marriages to end. It's better for everyone, not a failure.

I agree in the sense of aspiring to an Instagram lifestyle.

But when I refer to higher expectations in marriage, I mean - expecting more than someone earns an income, who mows the lawn and who doesn't beat you. And I don't think it is a bad thing that women are less likely to be shackled to abusive men for financial or social reasons.

@Horsie couldn’t agree with you more - marriage shouldn’t be a penance

Ignore me - I misread.

Why? Yes you enter marriage expecting it to last but factors change. If factors change in such a way that you are no longer compatible why is it a failure to part?

Is a marriage that lasts till death of one spouse but marred by infidelity, disrespect and complete incompatibility a “success” purely because it lasted? It’s such an odd point of view. I don’t get why “permanence” is the marker of success.

Women have more Independence so can leave but also there is less stigma on divorce so less motivation to compromise (this could be seen as less inclined to put effort in). I guess it depends on what the issue is; I would probably have asked the colleague if they thought women should tolerate ongoing repeated not violent domestic abuse.

If you look at insular (religious) communities where there is still stigma the divorce rates are often low. Men in these group might say it’s because their marriage are more successful, I just think it’s because the women have less options.

@Horsie yep and how many of us would not have believed that our partners could turn into alcoholics, porn addicts, sex pests, chronic gamblers, work shy, totally useless at domesticity etc- or combinations of !! there’s a lot of very intelligent women on here with great jobs who have been knocked sideways, women who would have thought they made smart choices- the implication is often that we go round choosing complete losers when the reality is that people can change , whether that’s at 3 years, 13 years or 30 years into the relationship

Anything is true when you make it up.

Why assume this is the outcome? Some people divorce and remain single or have long, happy and HEALTHY second marriages.