Marriages don’t last anymore because..

[PictureImperfect]

Had a debate with an colleague about why divorce seems so much more common now.

They said that in past generations, couples stayed together because they wanted to work through things and were more committed to making relationships last. I said I think it’s mainly because women have more freedom and independence now. Yes, most of the childcare still falls on women, but that was even more true in the past. Back then, loads of women didn’t have the opportunity to work full time and build careers like their husbands, so they relied on them for financial stability. Now that women can provide their own stability, they’re simply less likely to tolerate an unhappy marriage.

To me, that just seems like basic common sense but my colleague laughed and said I was completely wrong. According to them, people today just can’t be bothered to put in the effort and treat relationships as disposable. They also scoffed when I said women still don’t have the same opportunities as men.

It’s had me thinking, I honestly thought this was just obvious, but now I’m wondering what others think. AIBU, or is my colleague?

Divorce rates have actually declined over the past 30 years compared to now. I think years ago divorce many years ago just wasn't the done thing, there was societal pressure to remain together with it not even occurring as an option for most couples. I work as a Community Nurse and often find it interesting to witness the dynamics between much older couples - some clearly still love and care very much and some really don't. I am sure if they were young in todays society they would have walked away without a second glance.

There are still many women (you only have to look at the relationship board) who have few financial options and so feel trapped in their unhappy marriages. As for not putting the effort it I suppose they could be right but life is too short to be tied to someone because of vows said when their relationship was in a better place.

It seems to me that you are both correct. They are complementary rather than contradictory statements.

Couples used to have to put more effort into staying together because it would be hell for them (particularly for the woman) if they split.

I don’t think people were staying together for altruistic reasons, but for practical ones.

I think you’re both right. There are lots of different reasons for divorce being more common in modern times.
One is the fact that it used to be shameful but is no longer seen as such a scandal.
I also think you’re right about women now having more financial freedom being a factor too.
Your colleague is also right that people used to be more determined to put in the work for things (not just relationships) than they are now.

Divorce rates have declined because the marriage rate is declining. People are living together - and splitting up. I used to tell my younger colleagues that the problem is that people today think life will be better with someone else. It won’t, it will just be different. But there will still be problems and issues. Gwyneth Paltrow said her famous parents stayed together ‘because they never both wanted a divorce at the same time’.

A lower divorce rate could also be because fewer people are getting married. Years ago, couples would have to get married so they didn't shame their families. Nowadays, it is seen as ok to be 'living in sin' so no need to divorce when the relationship breaks down.

I sometimes wonder did rigid gender roles and old fashioned social expectations create more structure to toughing things out.

My DH and I are currently separated after 20 years married. He goes away with his mates several times a year and spends a lot of his money on his hobbies etc. things are easier for him than our parents generation and he feels entitled to live like this. Meanwhile I have had to look after the kids and work and soldier on for the most part. I just have never been able to get him to realise that it isn’t fair or reasonable. I feel like he loves 1950’s values suit him to get meals, laundry and childcare but not feeling a responsibility to be a family man that was expected of men.

As for couples today not sticking it out, one person can fix things on their own. Plus why stay and be miserable.

Also there were a lot of deserted wives in years gone by that weren’t represented in the divorce statistics.

As a pp said, it's a myriad of reasons. I think the divorce rate falling is a red herring though...fewer people actually marry in the first place so the relationship breakdown doesn't show in the figures.

I think the shift to both people working out if the home has been seismic. The expectation that both adults can have full on, demanding, fulfilling professional roles and run a home and raise children is , in many cases, unrealistic. It should absolutely be the case that either sexed parent could be home more, or both work part time but both working full time, with wraparound care, constant juggling and failing to do anything as well as you'd like is hugely pressuring.

I agree with this explanation. I guess what surprised me wasn’t the explanation itself but more the dismissal that there could be other contributing factors. I thought it was common knowledge women have been historically hindered by childcare more than men, but they would not accept that at all and said it’s a choice women have made.

Because more women know that they can leave. I see this as a wonderful thing, and I have been happily married for 30 years.

I completely agree with you.

While I do think people are less likely to work at some things, I'm not sure I'd extend that to marriage. In years past did they have marriage counselling, date nights etc

I think in the past they, especially women, just put up with it because they didn't consider there was any other option. We have higher expectations for happiness now in our relationships, but is that a bad thing?

The split up rate between non married people is higher. The divorce figures don’t show this but dc still suffer and often women do financially too. Many women are more financially secure being married but foolishly don’t see it and when partners split women are often worse off. Most women are better off in a divorce than being forced to walk away with nothing or very little.

That depends on the relationship surely? Having left a marriage where he treated me with contempt, didn’t pull his weight with childcare and expected me to pay for everything… for one where I have an equal partner who loves me and is respectful, I can tell you it’s very different indeed!

Most of my friends are long term married but if they were to divorce it would be
(in every case) the wife still being responsible for all the things that make the house and family run despite working.

Bollocks.

Relationships break down because of perspective. People today are self obsessed.

"I want a man who has this"

"Any woman I date has to have"

Blah! Blah! Blah!

Two selfish people, who are conditioned through TicTok reels, to only see their own wants and needs, are never going to have a lasting relationship.

"And what does he do for you OP"

Your perspective should be the other person.

"What can I do to support them"?

Two people who spend their lives looking at eachother, not their own reflections, can achieve anything. That couple will be unstoppable. They are eachothers support and eachothers priority. As soon as you see yourself as the priority then you have an entirely one-sided relationship with yourself. Your partner just becomes a domestic appliance.

Divorce happens because people become self obsessed. Self centered, and start to believe the TicTok nonsense.

@PrincessFairyWren that's exactly what happened to my now ex and I. We got married, had children, although I worked part time he was clearly 'The Provider'. He worked shifts so whilst he did a lot more childcare than a 9-5 worker, he had lots of time on his own when children were at school. With hindsight, as they got older and I took on more at work, he started to resent it as I began to earn more. I started coaching at a local rugby club and people began to recognise me rather than him, he became Blobby's husband rather than Coach X.

I think the final straw was the joint counselling session he insisted on, (he'd been seeing this counsellor anyway) and started saying how much he was struggling with the responsibility of doing everything and how everything depended on him - his face when the counsellor said "From the sounds of it Blobby is the one carrying everything".!!! three months later he said we should split up as our children were leaving home for uni and he didn't want to spend any time with just me. He remarried 4 years later and appears very happy.

Indeed - I’m divorced and now in a long-term relationship. Sure there are different problems; life is never stress-free. But they’re better problems to have, and he’s a better person to have them with. My exH is remarried and still the same miserable, grumpy, complaining person he was then. So glad I’ve only had to take a small amount of that over the last ten years instead of being locked in full time. I think I would be completely worn down by now.

YANBU My dm stayed with f because, in the 70s, where would a woman with 6 dc go? No handy refuges and the council would have laughed at her. Rape in marriage was still legal and until 1975, a woman needed a male guarantor to have a mortgage.

My experience of men (perhaps my age group) is they wanted someone to cook & clean, look after the children full time, and provide sex on tap, while they worked 9-5, then read the paper, played sport, went to the pub and maybe, possibly, cut the grass for which they should be praised as 'such a hard worker' and regarded as husband of the year.

Err, no thanks. I have a business degree, a 40 year career, a 4 bed house that is paid for and an adequate pension fund, all earned by myself. No divorce settlement, no inheritance. I have a lovely son who I have raised to regard women as equals, I have friends and hobbies, and a level of freedom my dm never had.

I dated from 18 - 48 so I gave it a good try 😊but couldn't find a man who wanted an equal partner. I look at my friends who are divorcing or being financially abused or living with grumpy old men and I am genuinely grateful for my situation. IMO the divorce rate is no surprise at all.

I don't think there was any more "effort" going into it. More women just put up with stuff because they were expected to and needed the financial support for themselves and their children. That included putting up with cheating, your husband giving you STDs, domestic abuse, general disrespect and just anything.

I think that's pretty patronising and "worse off" financially might be traded for better off in terms of happiness and dignity. Being expected to be grateful or something kind of house elf is not a good way to live.

I think it's socially acceptable to live together and not be married today. Most younger people aren't actively religious, so wouldn't get married. I've noticed the same about christenings, not been to one in the family in years! When you're not married it's easier to split up. Women now have an escape plan, they have a job and savings.

My mum's generation were trapped in marriages due to no money. Women were expected to give up work to become a house wife and mum. Luckily my dad always handed over his wages each week, and they shared the pot after expenses. But she had a friend who had never seen a penny apart from the grocery money. She couldn't buy new clothes or do anything. She left her husband and took the children. She ended up married to a kind man who shared his earnings. I think it's better today as Women work and have access to money, it equals freedom to them.

Your colleague sounds like a bit of an idiot.

For a long time divorce was considered a sin ("what God has joined let no man put asunder"). Divorce wasn't legally achievable for most people and even when the laws where liberalised there was still a stigma around divorce.

People weren't more committed to their relationships, they simply had no choice. If you had a shit spouse, well too bad, you just had to work on making the most of it.

It’s because is socially acceptable to not stay with some fuckwit you do t want to be with particularly if you’ve been cheated on PLUS one half of the couple is not longer entirely financially reliant on the other.
Both of my grandmothers were widowed young and never re-married. Both were financially reliant on their husbands but freed from that on their deaths, able to work & supported by their kids.
one grandfather was violent & controlling, the other a chaotic alcoholic.
No amount of ‘work’ would have changed them and if my grans had been born 50 years later they would have probably divorced by 30.

I am an old bird (60s) and have seen many divorces in my peer group - and now in my children’s peer group. I have never seen a divorce that wasn’t hard or unhappy - in some case genuinely traumatising. Financially both parties get screwed, children have a really tough path to negotiate and that ‘perfect future partner’ often doesn’t exist.

So I don’t think anyone really walks away from marriage easily; if people are getting divorced it means there are compelling reasons and it’s smug to suggest people today have no staying power. They do, however, have higher expectations about acceptable behaviour as does society as a whole.

I think that people live longer now and often once some people hit their 50s they look around and decide to leave for a new life (which ironically often becomes the same life with a new partner.)
This has happened to a number of people that I know.

Nothing is black and white and there are many factors that come into it. I do think your colleague is right though. Having said that no one be they man or woman should stay in any kind of abusive relationship (yes woman do abuse men and it is more common than you think. It’s just men don’t like to admit it). People can also grow apart. No marriage is perfect. They all have their ups and downs. It does seem these days when things get tough rather than communicate and work through the issues they split up. I also think both parties working full time, with children and all that that entails puts added pressure on the relationship and ultimately something gives.
As for women having the same opportunity as men of course they do.