Marriages don’t last anymore because..

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Had a debate with an colleague about why divorce seems so much more common now.

They said that in past generations, couples stayed together because they wanted to work through things and were more committed to making relationships last. I said I think it’s mainly because women have more freedom and independence now. Yes, most of the childcare still falls on women, but that was even more true in the past. Back then, loads of women didn’t have the opportunity to work full time and build careers like their husbands, so they relied on them for financial stability. Now that women can provide their own stability, they’re simply less likely to tolerate an unhappy marriage.

To me, that just seems like basic common sense but my colleague laughed and said I was completely wrong. According to them, people today just can’t be bothered to put in the effort and treat relationships as disposable. They also scoffed when I said women still don’t have the same opportunities as men.

It’s had me thinking, I honestly thought this was just obvious, but now I’m wondering what others think. AIBU, or is my colleague?

And is your career exactly where it would have been if you had never had them? Because if so I would suggest that’s quite unusual.

My parents marriage lasted 25 years before my father walked out, having had an affair for previous two years.

Looking back it's a miracle they stayed together that long, they were completely different people with different hopes and visions for the future.

In a different era , like now, I think they would have lasted 5 years tops and I wouldn't have existed!

If you are rich you marry and give more security to your offspring, if you are poorer you co-habit and are more likely to split up.

In the UK, there is a significant "marriage gap" where higher-income groups are much more likely to marry than lower-income groups.This disparity means that children born into wealthier families have a much higher chance of having two married parents compared to those from poorer families.

Yes, it's not just women having more choice, I think men now realise they can jump out of marriage in middle age and re-live their youth, safe in the knowledge that if they have kids their ex wife will continue to be the prime carer.

I’m not sure I recognise very much of that at all.

I don’t think “people” are inherently very much different than they ever were.

Who pays the Piper calls the tune- a lot of it comes down to who has the financial power.
Women have been tricked into feeling that domestic work isn't real work and doesn't have any real value

Please are less religious, so there's far less stigma attached to it, and because women are now financially empowered in a way they weren't in that past.

There is also greater awareness of things like domestic violence and rape within marriages which further empowers women to leave.

Women take up the majority of donestic labour in the home so they clearly see value in it. What they don’t do, is get financial rewards from it. Suggests to me that men do not see value in it.

You obviously don't read many posts on here, then. Because I see that all the time.

Agreed. I do think though that with greater awareness of bad behaviour and people valuing themselves they are less willing to put up with bad behaviour.

I feel like he loves 1950’s values suit him to get meals, laundry and childcare but not feeling a responsibility to be a family man that was expected of men.

This is such a good point. They're doing the very opposite of taking the rough with the smooth. They're expecting the smooth 24/7.

I was basing my assessment of “people” on real life. MN doesn’t reflect society as a whole, it reflects those who choose to post.

And the majority of posts are by people who are unhappy, worried or having some kind of problem - they probably aren’t at their best.

I always believed it’s because prior to 1975 when the sex discrimination act was passed in the UK, women were heavily oppressed and weren’t allowed to open a bank account or get a mortgage without a male guarantor and they were expected to leave work if they had children so many married for this reason and were then controlled and financially tied to men so rather than making marriages work they had very little choice.

Oh men see the value in it alright. Have you not noticed that men rarely leave a relationship without getting another woman lined up? This isn't coincidence. Most know that they can't function without the woman often keeping the show on the road. Living in a hovel with dirty clothes and no decent meals isn't appealing to anyone, man or woman.

I often notice how very rich families always spend an immense amount of money on domestic stuff and other things usually considered to be more feminine occupations. They have loads of housekeepers, cleaners, expensive nannies etc. So there absolutely is a recognition that all of these things have value and yet when a woman is doing them in a domestic setting for her own family nobody seems to think it's worth anything.

There are fewer marriages to begin with
and more effective birth control
and more women who are savvy to their legal and financial position

basically we don’t have to get lumbered or trapped in a house and relationship with a useless prick if you keep, demand you keep, your options open

long may it continue

To add to my previous point - I think there is less stigma around a man leaving a marriage and kids in middle age. As long as he makes a bit of an effort to see his kids once in a while and pays some maintenance people don't judge that as they used to.

The bar for dads being "great dads" is pretty low as is seen on here so often & the ex wives fill in all the extra time & effort with the kids, leaving men feeling able to be free in a way they weren't in the past.

Yes, mine is just as my own mother's was, because we purposely delayed having children until our mid-late 30's to ensure we were in the "right" place career wise that we could go back to our respective careers after maternity leave. Can't speak for my mother, but for me, there was no way I was having a child in my 20's as I spent my 20's having fun as a childless person/couple and concentrating on my career. It's easier to keep and get back into your career if it's established before your maternity leave as you're really not going to be in a good position to do additional training, professional qualifications, etc once you're busy bringing up children.

I think “not accepting bad behaviour” comes from a position of power though.

If you really, really need your job you’ll be more likely to put up with a bad boss.

If divorce would leave you destitute then you’ll be more likely to put up with a bad husband.

I agree with a previous poster who pointed out divorce rates in the UK are generally in decline perhaps due to less marriage and people being older, more sure when they do marry? The divorce rate in Russia is around 70% perhaps higher while in the UK it is about 42% which is less than half, so it seems the majority of married couples do stay together.

I'm in a bit of a bubble and don't really know anyone who has divorced very well to be honest although I know that's unusual. I had a neighbour as a child who divorced but that is the extent of my experience with it.

From what I have read on here and elsewhere I don't believe most people give up on a marriage because they cannot be bothered I suspect most people try really hard to make it work, especially if they have kids. I know women get a lot of flack for initiating most divorces but I think that is usually at the end of the road when they have tried to fix things repeatedly with a willing spouse or not and it's just not fixable are bearable any longer. Women will usually be the one's not to want to go on endlessly in a terrible situation while sometimes men will bury their heads in the sand. Are their a few people who just give up? Perhaps but I think it's a small minority.

That’s interesting, no impact at all from taking maternity leave? No impact on career progression because you left at 5pm on the dot to pick up your kids? No impact from not being able to travel at the drop of a hat or take time off because your kids were ill?

I've had a good career, I have a great salary, but if I hadn’t chosen to have children I have no doubt I’d have been several rungs up the ladder be now.

I agree that that both of you have a point. I think it's true that women have more financial independence so do not depend on a man for their survival. I also think attitude to relationships have changed and it's more socially acceptible to get a divorce now than it was 100 years ago.

I also think society has become increasingly individualistic, which means that people prioritise their own happiness above the happiness of others. Or place their own happiness in things relating to the self rather than things relating to others.

I also think life isn't as harsh as it once was. There's a lot more provision by the state and charities so the importance of family has declined.

You're over-egging it a bit there. Whilst it was "harder" for a woman to have her own bank account or loans, etc., it wasn't impossible. Some financial institutions would do it, but, it was more like Dad's Army days when you had to go and meet the bank manager in person and it was their decision as to whether to open a bank account or give you a loan, depending on how you presented to them, in terms of your persona, wealth, occupation etc. (But that was the same for men too a lot of the time). I certainly know we had a Maiden Aunt who never married, never had children, but who had her own home, ran her own business, etc. Yes, I grant you, things were different and bank accounts/loans weren't the "free for all" they are today, but you can't say that women weren't allowed to have bank accounts and loans - they were, just that it wasn't easy!

So true. Perhaps I ought to say men would prefer not to reciprocate when they get this labour from women.

Women has little choice back then. When I started work (1974) women were still giving up work because they were getting married. (That was why there was the job vacancy I filled.) My grandma would have been homeless and jobless if she'd left the marriage. My MIL had no say or control of the finances, hadn't worked for years because FIL didn't want her to, hadn't driven for years because FIL constantly criticized her driving. She was effectively trapped in the marriage.

Exactly and why women can leave bad marriages now.