Marriages don’t last anymore because..

[PictureImperfect]

Had a debate with an colleague about why divorce seems so much more common now.

They said that in past generations, couples stayed together because they wanted to work through things and were more committed to making relationships last. I said I think it’s mainly because women have more freedom and independence now. Yes, most of the childcare still falls on women, but that was even more true in the past. Back then, loads of women didn’t have the opportunity to work full time and build careers like their husbands, so they relied on them for financial stability. Now that women can provide their own stability, they’re simply less likely to tolerate an unhappy marriage.

To me, that just seems like basic common sense but my colleague laughed and said I was completely wrong. According to them, people today just can’t be bothered to put in the effort and treat relationships as disposable. They also scoffed when I said women still don’t have the same opportunities as men.

It’s had me thinking, I honestly thought this was just obvious, but now I’m wondering what others think. AIBU, or is my colleague?

Its absolute bollocks marriages don't last any more. The marriage rate has plummeted and it looks like the divorce rate has levelled off in recent years/decades and sort of peaked in the 90s/00s. I think it is more the case that only marrying types are getting married and we may well see the divorce rate fall, in coming years.

I asked my mum a similar question about why she stayed married to my dad for 18 years in a loveless abusive marriage. She fell pregnant with me at 19 accidently three months into their relationship. She lived at home with her mum and siblings in a tiny council house. She was told she couldn't live at home with a baby so felt she had no choice. My parents married when I was 3 months old. She said that it was unusual to be a mother out of wedlock. She felt that she had no choice as she would have been homeless etc. She finally left my dad when I was nearly 19, my brother was 16. By that point we were hardly home being teenagers, she was working full time and had places to sofa surf until the divorce came through. She then put a deposit down on a shared ownership flat where she has lived ever since. I wish she had divorced my dad earlier, it would have been easier on us kids but I can absolutely see why she couldn't. It's only now as an adult with my own young kids I can see how she might have felt stuck.

I think nowadays there is less social constraint and it's easier to be propped up by the state.

I think women are more dissatisfied with their marriages as they have become inherently so unfair. Most women are now expected to bring in an income and manage a household. It's exhausting and too much. Life outside of marriage is far more appealing for many for this very reason.
If there has been a recent decline in divorce rates, it's because men have started to pull their weight a bit more.

My nan, who would be 116 if still alive absolutely hated my grandad, she used to call him an arsehole and tell us all how much she hated him. Marriages might have lasted but they probably shouldn't have.

Here’s the thing though: I don’t believe in toughing out a relationship with someone which isn’t enhancing my life. It makes no sense to me that that should have a higher priority than my own happiness as an individual.

For me there are two good reasons to stay in a marriage: for economic security (which doesn’t apply to me) and to provide stability for children.

If you take those two things out of the equation there’s no other value in marriage other than “we made vows”. What’s the point of continuing to do something which makes you unhappy because you made vows a long time ago. Changing your mind is often the most rational way to behave if your circumstances change: why do we reward self denying intransigence?

I am not married and would not marry again but I don’t understand why society praises and rewards such rigid and irrational behaviour.

In my experience so far, ive seen a lot of women settle because the grass just hasn't been greener so they have come back to what they know. For them, better to be with someone than alone. The only person I know who divorced was because her husband went to prison. I know a few people who are happy but they met young and again, the woman does everything!

I think men are often completely oblivious that those grandmothers they loved for enduring and keeping the family together are actually the ones whispering into their granddaughter’s ear

Interesting that this is mentioned. The only time I came close to marriage, it was his gran, who was a lovely kind 85yo, who took me quietly to one side, and warned me to look closely and think very very carefully. She was right.

My marriage failed because STBExH came out at age 40. I won't take any responsibility for it failing, I loved him deeply, thought we were best friends and that we would grow old together. Instead he went out and had sex with random men online, its ruined my life and I'll never trust another man again

This is so true. I think many grandmothers told their daughters and granddaughters the truth but not their sons and grandsons so men see the past as rather idealized. The truth was that a long marriage did not always mean a long marriage. The more you put up with, the longer your marriage will be.

My grandmother had an abusive, alcoholic husband. She rejoiced when he died but she would never ever have divorced him. Even when he abused their children. The social stigma was the main thing because he wasn't bringing in money and she had to work.

@NoArmaniNoPunani

Marriages might have lasted but they probably shouldn't have.

Exactly. People talk about long marriages as if they’re an automatic good. Very often they are just an elaborate legal/financial trap.

Your first sentence is wrong. The divorce rate is the proportion of marriages that end in divorce. It climbed through the 70s and 80s, reaching a peak in the early 90s, but has fallen since. It is now around half what it was at its peak and is close to what it was in the 1970s. Divorce is only more common if you compare to the 1960s or earlier. OP's question is therefore based on a false premise.

Of course, as we get older it tends to feel like there are more divorces because more of the married couples we have known have split up.

It was much easier to get legal aid until recently. Now I imagine a divorce costs an arm and a leg . I never seem to hear much about divorces now as I did when I was in my forties . I read online that a survey was taken and it concluded that if the finances were in place 75 % of people would leave . It must be awful being stuck in an unhappy marriage because there is no where to go .

Would you like a list if the women I know who were with their partners or husbands for years before having planned children that were then abandoned by the man when family life got too dull and someone a few years younger and thinner came along? I know one whose husband begged her to go through IVF and then fucked off. And all the single mothers I know, me included, work full time and don't claim anything except CB.

No, the divorce rate is declining as a percentage of the people getting married, not just as a number.

I think it gives comfort to many people to think if they do the right thing they will get a good result therefore those who did not get a good result should have chosen better.

I am sorry for you. It is so unfair.

But those two things, especially the children, are massive. Would you still have your own happiness as top priority if you had children who would quite like to grow up in a together family that rubs along ok?

You are correct. Women were completely trapped by marriage and financial dependence on a man until recently.

I think you are right about cohabiting. Because so many couples do not marry now, it is very easy for both men and women to walk away at the first sign of difficulty. When that happens, the woman is often left with very little, especially if she has taken on most of the childcare. That kind of split never shows up in the divorce statistics so it creates a misleading picture.

People who go on to actually get married probably have a better chance of staying together because they have made a conscious commitment and it is harder to separate financially and practically.

A quick look at the data supports this. In the UK, the projected lifetime risk of divorce for newly married couples has been falling. It is around 35 percent now, down from around 44 percent for those who married in the late eighties and early nineties.

If you look at marriages that end within the first decade, fewer couples who married since 2000 are divorcing within ten years compared to those who married in the nineties. So the idea that marriages do not last anymore is not really reflected in the numbers.

People generally take longer to get together these days and have a much better vocabulary for healthy and unhealthy behaviour. That probably means the marriages that do happen are better matched and more resilient than the ones formed after a few months of courting and a quick wedding. In the past those couples were often tethered for life whether it worked or not.

Depends though doesn't it. A lot of disrespect is not illegal but it can be damaging for the children to see. I hated seeing my mum doing all the chores and working and she was exhausted and miserable. My father was constantly jokingly disrespectful and putting her down. I did not even know the impact it had on me until I was an adult in terms of taking disrespect myself in relationships and the workplace.

It’s actually a mix of reasons but the main one is people are no longer chastised for divorcing and women can have financial independence.
He is also right when he says people no longer fight for their marriage , some people are to selfish to actually be able to see others perspective , often people get married already knowing they can divorce so it’s no longer seen as a massive for life commitment.

Well - my mum stayed with my dad because we’re catholic. None of the other stuff you talk about. She should have left him though.

The welfare state wouldn't have to pick it up so much if the CSA had more teeth, worked closely with HMRC and really went after fathers hiding their money or otherwise not meeting their financial responsibilities, or there were custodial sentences for it. It should be akin to defrauding the taxpayer, as they are, and more importantly their own children.

I think another thing besides what has been mentioned is the internet and social media and mobile phones have made it easier than ever to be disloyal when you get bored, but also much easier to get caught and for whatever reason many women in particular ‘want something concrete ‘ to leave for and to justify their reasons - just being miserable for some women won’t be enough - I remember when I split with my 1st husband at 28 and my gran saying ‘I don’t understand you, he doesn’t hit you, he brings good money in’ - that honestly was the criteria for many of us now in our 60s as our grandparents saw it - ironically I don’t think she liked my grandad much at all

And all the divorces that happened before the launch of TikTok in 2016?

I’m a bit surprised that anyone who posts on MN hasn’t come to the conclusion following even a cursory glance at the relationships board that there are a lot of women still trapped in truly terrible marriages simply because they can’t afford to leave.

There have, to date, been no divorces in my family. I’m not foolish enough to believe that hundreds of years worth of long marriages is because all those people were happy, or “worked hard at it”.

I’ve been very happily married for nearly 3 decades but if my lovely DH lost his mind and suddenly cheated on me, beat me, did drugs or any one of the thousand terrible things we see on the relationships board I would walk without question.

I love and adore my DH but I’ve spent my marriage ensuring that I was always able to financially support myself and my children if I needed to.

My very happily married Mother taught me that and I’m passing the lesson on to my daughter. Lack of income or earning potential makes you really, really vulnerable.

Oh, the 'better choices' argument! Please tell me oh fount of wisdom how I could have predicted at the time of my marriage that my late husband would react to the death of his parents (who didn't by any means die young, it was just life!) by diving into the bottle and becoming abusive to me and our DC?

Other than CB, I didn't claim any benefits - because I have always worked and paid my way. Not everyone is that fortunate. Your post reeks of misogyny.