If you don't consider life admin to be a thing...

[ruethewhirl]

...then how do you mentally 'label' (so to speak) things like banking and official correspondence?

Not being goady here, genuinely curious. Not a TAAT as such, I see it stated so often on MN that there's 'no such thing' as life admin or the mental load (although I tend to assume the latter refers to slightly different things eg each partner doing their share of things like remembering birthdays, making sure the kids have clean clothes etc). Life admin-wise, part of why I'm bemused by this is that I have a lot of things to take care of in my life that I think definitely count as life admin - not only my own banking, but managing correspondence with my GP's surgery (I have multiple conditions) and also handling my mum's finances at her request (she has Alzheimer's) plus handling her general correspondence and sorting things out on the many occasions her care company drops the ball. 🙄 Oh, and chasing the vet/pet insurance company about insurance claims for our cats that seem to drag on for ever!

And then there are things like handling the correspondence if you switch banks or energy providers, complaining about poor service, managing quotes if you're getting home improvements done... what are these things if not life admin? What do you call them instead?

Is it really so insane to suggest that these types of activities warrant an umbrella term with which to refer to them? Presumably the vast majority of people have at least some of this kind of stuff to do in their day-to-day lives, so it puzzles me when people claim there's no such thing. (And if you're one of them, how do you refer to these tasks?)

YABU: There's no such thing as life admin
YANBU: Yes there is!

I call them my jobs. House jobs usually (as opposed to work jobs). My to-do list. And I do sometimes feel overwhelmed by them, even if they are part of every day life. So his week my jobs are::
Pick up a prescription for my HRT (I left this until the last possible minute)
Phone up the insurance company as the roof leaked on Monday (I phoned on Monday and builder coming to assess on Thursday)
Order hoover bags for tomorrow when the cleaner comes
Sort out a doctors appointment using my work medical insurance
Apply for two jobs whose deadline is the end of the week
Sort out papers for a solicitors appointment on Thursday
Get some specialist ear cleaner for the dog
Rearrange a doctors appointment for earlier this week that I had to cancel.

This is on top of my normal run of the mill jobs that I don't include in a to do list but I still have to fit in:
Daily cleaning, washing and cooking
Shopping and menu planning
Daily banking - I check my account every day while I'm having my morning coffee. Pay things I need to pay - l will have to pay for a school trip tomorrow.
Looking after kids and pets

And it's on top of a full time job. And exercise and a social life.

I don't have a disabled child (actually I do have 2 ND children) or an elderly parent, or a life limiting illness, but I still feel that my jobs are quite a load on my already busy life.

(I add to my jobs with stupid things like buying clothes I don't need which I then need to arrange to send back. or Vinted things I sell and then have to post).

When I was single I also would have scoffed at the idea of life admin being a thing. Now I'm doing it for six of us with busy, complicated lives and ongoing health conditions in some cases and it's definitely a thing. Not because I choose to make it so but it just never seems to work out the way other posters are saying.

So this morning I'm waiting for the plumber to arrive, giving me time to phone the bank, for example, but is that a five minute task as mentioned above? Is it fuck. 30 minutes later I've been passed from department to department but mostly on hold, have got nowhere and that time is wasted because the plumber is now here (if you're lucky and he actually turns up) and I have to deal with that issue and hope to get back to the bank later. Plumber says boiler's dead and I need a new one. We're not in a position to throw money at any old boiler so I spend time to research the right one and the best price and I order it online (the next day I receive an email saying due to stock managing error it's out of stock and won't be back for six weeks so I have to start from scratch). I hear from the doctor that they have to rearrange my child's appointment - no problem, but meanwhile I've rearranged my work and booked in someone else to deal with my other child while doing that, all of which now has to be rearranged. Brother was picking up other daughter but can't do it at the new time and date so husband has to rearrange work instead. I need to use the app to make a payment to the school but of course it won't load for whatever reason so that's yet another thing I have to remember to redo, having already spent the time to do it and failed. Meanwhile the dog has been sick and I need to arrange to go to the vet and the only appointments available clash with other appointments so now something else has to be rearranged... I could go on.

So yes, when a call to the bank only takes five minutes, when everyone else does what they are supposed to do when they are supposed to do it, maybe it doesn't take long but in real life I don't find it works like that. I'm not in the UK, I'm in a country famous for having awful bureaucratic systems and that no doubt makes it worse, and clearly I need somehow to organise my life better but everything is as automated as possible, direct debits etc. but some things still do take time, they just do. And as mentioned by someone else, it's not just one thing that only has to be done once per year and takes five minutes, because as soon as that's done it's something else, and something else, and something else again.

By mutual agreement in our house life admin is my job, not because husband is useless, far from it, but for various reasons it works best that way for us. On two occasions over the past 14 years I have been hospitalised and out of action for a week (apart from having babies) and husband has by necessity taken on 'my' jobs at home - I was only working part-time at the time. He dialled down his own work to make time and 'be me'. Each afternoon he would be white of face and looking shell shocked. I would ask why and he says he just had no idea how complicated it could all be. I truly wish our lives were so simple that this didn't have to be a thing but somehow it is.

Life admin is a lot. I guess it does depend how old your kids are.

Over the last week, some of the life admin I've done has included:

Meal planning (every week) and grocery shop
Attending parents' evening
Speaking to DD's swimming teacher about an issue she's been having
RSVPing to a last minute party invite and organising a gift and card
Signing consent for a school trip and buying new wellies (as they were too small)
Signing consent form and paying for school disco
Organising costume for school disco
Checking new quote for boiler insurance (renewing next month) and calling to negotiate (managed to get it at £1 more than last year rather than £10 more than last year, which is slightly less work than changing supplier)
Writing a consent letter for SD's Mum to sign to enable us to take her abroad in December
Starting to research, organise and plan clothing and accessories for December trip (as we could be facing temps of -30 C)
Starting to organise Christmas gifts and look for good deals
Organising SD's birthday gift, (managing to get a deal through my BLC but that required me to purchase gift vouchers and then buy it using the gift vouchers) then co-ordinate delivery with her Mum

Still on the list is trying to work out the best dates for a theatre show that DD wants to see in December, a panto which a friend is starring in, and a light show.

Also just remembered I haven't yet paid for a day of forest school which she's going to over half term.

Checking our life insurance is also on the list of things to do as it's a while since we signed up and I want to make sure no details have changed.

All of them are small tasks in themselves but that's just an ordinary week, no more or less than the average week, and I'm constantly thinking of all the little jobs that need to be done and what the deadline is.

I'm very envious of anyone who finds it all effortless.

Which dentist do you use that has availability in a week? 🤨

Beautifully put.

I haven't read the full thread, but what gets to me is newly invented 'life admin' that companies throw at me when I do online shopping! These emails infiltrate my work or my personal emails and they clog up and distract from things I really need to do. I'll get a notice that there are things in a basket. I'll get an invoice. I'll get about 4 emails saying that the parcel has gone to a courier and that I can track it, then one from the courier telling me that they'll deliver it. Then I get one because they've delivered it. Then I'll get one asking for feedback for the courier service. Then I'll get something asking for a review for what ever I bought. Then the company I bought from will send me a marketing email the next day and for ever more! I spend my life unsubscribing f
rom things, but honestly, it's this more than anything that weighs me down!

I wouldn’t call complaining about something an admin task. That’s something you’ve decided to do not been forced to do.

I agree with some of this, because I do think women often think things are more necessary than men do. The reason I have so much child club related admin is because I think extra-curriculars are important for my kids and he doesn't. Same for things like having a social life, sorting out clothes and having a healthy diet. These things occupy a lot of my head space because I have many children, who do many activities and who are picky about food.

You could debate about who is right. Maybe a lot of these things don't matter. But the fact is that when he is sitting around in the evening watching tv and relaxed, I'm checking the calendar, checking my reminders, filling in forms and then often remembering something crucial that I've forgotten when I'm lying in bed and just above to doze off.

I consider myself a good mix of efficient, and can't be arsed. So most chores get done to a degree, without too much agonizing.

However even I can see that it is disingenuous and dismissive to pretend that this "stuff" whatever we call it, does not carry some weight.

Life is busy, we are all busy. Most households have every adult in them working. There is still shit that needs to get done, even small automated shit - there still has to be someone who thinks about it. It is a nonsense to pretend that the total of all life admin, summed up, still equals nothing. Especially if (when) it primarily falls on one person's (woman's) shoulders.

I too have no patience for the whole 'i can't work outside the home because life admin' argument, I work full time and do my life admin as well. But who benefits from us pretending that it is just nothing, takes no time and no mental energy??

It is a thing, it does have to happen, it does take energy. Usually but not always, a woman's energy

I agree with you - it's far from effortless. I don't call it life admin, but my to-do list takes a lot of time and mental load. Maybe its different because I am a single parent but I think when I was married I was still the one with the to-do list (I just tried to allocate some of the jobs to my then husband but they still remained on my list) (In fact I'm not sure he even had a list).

i think part of it is that the woman is also often expected to be the person who organises who does what as well, and when. There have been plenty of threads where the more physical household tasks are carried out equally, but the "life admin" ones all fall to one person who is expected to create a rota (if that's how they do things), be the one to add things to the calendar, and remind their partner to actually read the bloody thing.

So say for example parents take turns in clothes or shoes shopping. One partner happily takes them when told that it's their turn, but they have to be told, whereas the other person notices that shoes are being grown out of, or clothes are getting tatty, and knows it's the other person's turn and has to tell them to do the task.

I love my DBro intensely, but felt like shooting him every time he said it was my fault he hadn't done something in the house because I hadn't reminded him.

They're just things to be done. They don't need a name.
I think nowadays people like to give everything a name to make it sound important.
I just get on with it.

🤣🤣🤣

giving me time to phone the bank, for example, but is that a five minute task as mentioned above? Is it fuck. 30 minutes later I've been passed from department to department but mostly on hold, have got nowhere

Navigating your way through phone systems is a PITA, granted, but I genuinely can't remember the last time I phoned my bank. It was years ago. What are people phoning their bank about when everything can be done quickly through banking apps?

I think the discrepancy between the people who think life admin is a thing and the ones who don't, is often down to how well you can work a computer, or how comfortable you are on the phone.

DP tried to return an item of clothing online the other day. She spent half an hour trying to do it before giving up and asking me. At which point I joined her, clicked a few buttons and bam, done. I just instinctively know where the right buttons to press are, and how to get to the right bit of the site etc.

And this happens with almost all online interactions for her. Even when she know what to do, it for some reason won't work for her. And then I come in and do the same thing, and it works. So what should be a 5 minute job, becomes half an hour. And if you've got 5 5 minute jobs, suddenly that's a whole evening of "life admin"

I, on the other hand, cannot work people. If I have to deal with someone on the phone or in person, I will almost always find them obstinate and difficult, no matter how polite I am. A situation I can describe perfectly by email, I'm incapable of getting across on the phone. DP on the other hand instantly gets her point across, and sweet talks them into what she wants. So a 3 hour repeated phone call for me, is a 5 minute job for her. So it becomes this mountainous "life admin" thing for me, but not for her.

Luckily for us, we're not both computer illiterate, so I can take her 5 hours of life admin, and do it while eating a sandwich on lunch. Unfortunately she's less good at pretending to be a bloke on the phone, so I can't hand off my phone related and real life life admin to her.

It’s definitely an Irish saying so likely also used in Scotland.
it comes from before telephones and villagers would leave messages to each other and community communications in the local shop,
The local shop was, a lot of the time, also the post office, and the pub so going out to get the messages was a catch all for ‘ getting shit done’

The problem with these discussions on MN is that there are just so many people in different life stages and different family situations.

And people in different countries - is you are in the USA for example and have a few health issues to deal with then the admin side because of the insurance element of that takes hours a week every week - it’s exhausting.

Fuck yes! And I am obliged to at least open and check all of these emails, albeit briefly, because when I HAVEN'T done that it's bitten me on the arse when one of the 100 actually contained important information that I missed and had to spend sodding ages sorting it all out afterwards.

Life admin for families disproportionally falls to women and I suspect that’s why it’s not considered “important”.

I work FT, we split the admin between us. I do all kid stuff (clothes, clubs, play dates, school admin, medical admin for all) and he largely sorts house maintenance, insurance, car etc.

Lots of it is automatic but some things just take time, eg. trying to find a suitable swim school with lesson availability was a mammoth job as a. their websites are atrocious and b. they’re all fully booked. I’d also love to live in an area where you just call one plumber or one electrician and they a. provide you with a quote and b. it’s not extortionate.

It depends where you live and on which bank you're with. Where I am you are sometimes obliged to do stuff in person (renewing ID annually as an example), and the banking apps are so unreliable that it can be quicker and easier to do it in person.

DH does a lot of the actual physical work of it- i.e. it's me who researched swimming lessons, got her on a waiting list, and bought a swimming costume, and added the date and time to our calendar, it's him that washes and dries the swimming costume and towel every week and puts it back in the swimming bag.

It's me that reminded him that today was the school trip and made sure she had wellies and that her wellies and coat were ready, it was him that got her up, dressed and into school on time.

I forgot to mention that she started singing lessons last week so I researched a good teacher, started a text chat with the teacher, paid her and rearranged our budget a bit to afford the sessions, but he took her to the lesson.

This works well for us as he finds planning very stressful, and I find the physical stuff hard, and I don't drive.

It is true that much of it is a choice. She doesn't have to go to singing lessons. Her Rainbows troop was short on adult help, so I volunteered to help, now I go every week, plan a lot of the sessions and attend training events on weekends- I don't HAVE to do any of that, but someone has to, if we want those opportunities to continue for girls including my DD.

I think it's a thing and the PP who mentioned 'me time' has a point - I'm currently on mat leave with DC2, and find it harder to fit in than when I only had one DC and working as I could do it on my lunch break/commute without interruption. It's not a lot but doing an insurance quote for example requires me to answer questions correctly so need to concentrate which is harder with a baby... so I wait until kids are in bed, but then it's 'me time' and I don't want to do it 😆. I've actually taken to doing it on car journeys at the weekend if DH is driving.

Until you've become a carer/responsible for people with dementia etc, I honestly don't think people get it. Same as if you're trying to work FT and have a child with disabilities, or have health conditions yourself, and have a terrible GP/social services. It makes a massive difference, even if it sound like X and Y should have the same amount of life admin.
It's like childbirth/sleeping through the night etc-it varies greatly for everyone. Pretty sure no one has zero life admin (if they're getting family to do it for them, I'd advise being very careful as one day they might have to do their own), but there's much more for some people.
Equally some of us like some things more than others. I'm quite happy with scheduling/kid's party stuff/online shopping etc. Others hate this.

Unless you’re a single parent family, you don’t do them all - DH and I divide things up. He’s as capable as I am at RSVPing to a party invite, buying the card and present and taking DC to the right place at the right time.

First post has it as usual . Life admin is part of life. Banking is a bad example. All banking is online now, you can do it on the bus or whilst waiting outside dc activities.

Having to care for an elderly relative in not life admin. It sounds like you have more to do for your mum. It can be overwhelming.

If you are ill or your child is ill that's not life admin or it is but only to the extent that's its admin in your life. For someone who just has to take my dc to hospital from time to time, broken limb, CAMHS stuff, a serious virus which resulted in follow up tests plus dental surgery this year it hasn't been too much to deal with. All the forms take about a minute online.

If I had a child with a very serious illness the admin may Feel like a lot.

Ditto pet insurance. Just don't have pets if it's getting on top of you.

I do a lot of "admin" for dc hobbies: paying bills and trips and equipment and scheduling around it. But that's life. It slots in with other things.

School is pretty bad for trips and payments and forms and things to remember. Again, it's just life. One day I won't have school aged dc and then maybe I'd have time to organise the church fair or help an elderly relative instead.

The trick is to deal with stuff there and then not let it all amass then spend hours like its a job.