Kids in care

[Marie299]

My daughter is 9 and does not want to see me I don’t know what reason is but I have been told that it’s due to different reasons. It’s been two years since I’ve proper seen her and she’s on a SGO with grand parents and theys a court order stating my contact with her should be every 6 weeks which has not been happening.

When I have been on the phone to her she’s been asking when she can see me and then a few weeks down the line she does not want to speak to me or see me. Just finding things very strange I have spoken to her grand parent about this and they not really saying much other then my daughter is doing therapy play but how can my bond with her even build when I am not invited to these things either.

I don’t know what to do I’m in the middle on going to court or just waiting it out but it’s been two years and worried that if I do nothing then my bond with her will never be fixed.

need advice

@Namechange822 thank you this seems to have changed my perspective about the situation I think it’s just hard when I’m in the middle of it and my head is just swaying in loads of different directions with emotions thank you so much

@Marie299 i totally get that, it’s such a hard thing to be dealing with. Good luck 🤞 Hopefully she comes round as she gets older.

@ViolaChompno ne is not

I’m a care leaver, I’m also a parent through adoption. Care experience and trauma isn’t a reason for removal, it wouldn’t be a reason the courts would grant and unless worrying things were disclosed to a midwife it wouldn’t be a reason for SS input.

Becoming a parent when you’re a child is reason for SS input, as children are not equipped to become parents. You say support was poor, what do you mean by this? Support is usually there to create a person who can independently parent, it isn’t there to handle hold and be almost a care giver to the parent. You say you had nowhere to go, were you homeless?

Any contact is rightly about the needs of the children, our son has phone contact with his birth mother, on the phone he is usually very positive etc, however once he’s done he gets quite upset as he’s worried she’ll hurt him, let him down again, hurt his sister, have another baby and hurt them. Its very common for trauma experienced children to do their absolute best to mask their feelings and to put on an act when they don’t feel safe or secure.

@Simonjtthe story goes and beyond that mistakes happened because soical got involved as I was pregnant in care and they were all over me like a rash and they ruined my mental health and judge me so much I failed on small things that wouldn’t of happened if they didn’t breathe down my neck like I’ve said to the others you don’t know why they were involved even when I’m being honest your still being in denial I have explained my self loads the reason soical took my kids it all led up to it because I was in care and they never believed that I could change

What were those small things that you did?

I saw the first pages of this thread and wanted to post about how Mumsnet (especially AIBU) isn’t the place to look for advice, and there are Facebook groups that welcome first families of adoptees (and so children with a SGO), but maybe it’s worth it for the odd comment like this.

Sending love, my younger son is adopted, and sadly isn’t able to have direct contact with his first mother, but from what I hear about her they have a lot in common, and it would be impossible not to have empathy for her, knowing how his experiences have affected him, and the absolutely beautiful person he is.

Your daughter is of an age where she probably wants to hear you take responsibility for the circumstances of her childhood. I've been involved in many cases where in my view children should have been removed and haven't, the threshold is very high. Being honest and taking responsibility, rather than blaming social care is a step towards a transparent relationship with your child.
If doesn't sound like grandparents are preventing contact if your son lives with them too and you see him every two weeks. You really need to reflect on your own part in all of this regardless of your own circumstances, and how this has affected your daughter. She may be testing you, she doesn't trust your relationship with her, she's pushing you away and rather than doing anything about that you just haven't seen her for two years. You're doubling down on the abandonment she will already feel. You say you've changed and most people will between 20 and 27 but you don't seem to recognise the trauma your daughter has experienced and is still experiencing.

You haven't explained a thing OP that's why people are giving you grief. You are being deliberately vague about why social services were involved and making out it was all a witch-hunt against you. It's neither here nore there if you want to try and spin this yarn with strangers on the internet but if they don't buy it then it's highly unlikely that your kids will either. You need to do some serious self-reflection if you really want a relationship with your children and stop blaming the people who put them first and protected them when you weren't able to

You've obviously had a tough time OP and I’m sure we all sympathise with that. BUT, you insisting that social services set you up to fail and lose your children is bullshit. People have tried to advise you of things but to be completely honest, your attitude is horrendous. You lost your children because you couldn’t look after them, if you could, they would still be with you. Social services don’t want to split children from their parents. Stop with the bullshit. It’s not helping you.

This is incorrect. It’s not common but it can and does happen depending on risk factors vs protective factors. It comes under ‘risk of future harm’ which we don’t need to quantify there just has to be a significant concern. For example a parent who was abused and in the care system themselves could perhaps be having a MH crisis - if they have a good support network, engage with therapy and the child has consistent good levels of care etc then it can be fine but if there is poor engagement and things like poor school attendance signs of neglect no support network Plus concerns from other professionals things can be looked at more negatively. Children can be removed for this as it’s often better to be proactive not reactive. As I said it’s rare but ‘risk of future harm / risk of future emotional harm’ is a safeguarding issue.

@Marie299 i think you need to separate out why your children were taken into care and contact with your daughter. One is your story and definitely not hers and for her has no bearing on right now.
The past cannot be changed for either of you only the future and for that you need to centre it around your daughter.

and for that you need to give her time and space - make it clear you are there for her but any contact will always be led by her and the pace at what she wants it to be.

if there is any alienation going on then she may well see that in time.

You need to recognise and accept 2 things

1. what is best for you and what is best for her are not necessarily the same
2. what is best for her needs to be centred and what is best for her is for her to lead all of this

give it time and don’t push but also don’t withdraw. Find a place where she knows you are there when she is ready

My friend is a children's social worker and she often goes to court to present evidence. She told me it is so hard to get children taken from bad parents, as a portfolio of evidence is needed all of the time. Sometimes the evidence isn't enough, it makes her upset. They really need the child to actually say what's been happening, which most won't. So for them to have removed her from you with only a visit once every 6 weeks, you have put her in danger and made her unsafe. No wonder she doesn't want to see you. I'd leave her alone and stop making babies you can't take care of. Thank God she is safe with her grandparents now.

I work closely with social services and while in general I agree that children aren't "taken for nothing" it is very clear that young people in care are unfairly scrutinised to the point it can be very difficult to "pass" parenting assessments.

I have seen children removed for ridiculous reasons and yes, even based on no actual harm but perceived future risk. I've sat through court in tears supporting young parents who haven't been given a chance and have jumped through hoops to be the best parents they can.

OP I hope things improve and while I agree that your daughter's needs come first, make every effort to speak to her as much as she's willing to keep your relationship going x

Lots of people have a difficult childhood and manage to create loving and stable homes for their children. I would start by reflecting on why your DC doesn't want to see you, rather than yourself, and that accountability may be the basis for a relationship with her in future

In the majority of cases contact with parents is encouraged. If you feel there is resistance from grandparents I would advise that you seek legal advice. It is beneficial for your daughter to see you as long as there are no continuing risk factors but that’s very individual so I’m giving general advice as don’t know your full circumstances .

I'm hoping the grandparents she is with are not your parents in that case.

@Shakeyourwammyfannyfunkysong but the thing is I am being honest as to why they were removed they were supervisin concerns and they were against me everyone who was involved said the same even other professionals I don’t have to explain to you anymore

I've tangentially seen a young mother who worked really hard to look after her latest child, with a great deal of support from her network, given no chance by Social Services. Not a shred of a chance. Her child was removed despite considerable evidence that she had changed her parenting. She had a different social worker and she was allowed to keep the next and it's more or less worked ... with a lot of support.

if people think Social Workers are all for their clients' bests interests though they are supremely naive. It's a profession that attracts the best and worst of people, and is chronically severely underfunded and attacked, with all the problems that brings.

I've personally worked with two social workers, one of whom isolated vulnerable team members and clients and dragged them down, and one of whom used prostitutes, manipulated everyone around them and forced sex on people.

Also known two outstanding social workers who deserved far better treatment than they received and who were nothing but a positive thing for their clients.

So when you say that your social worker gave you no chance, sadly it seems feasible to me that you've been unlucky. All these posters who assume that it was all your fault seem either sadly naive or malicious, and brutally so when talking to a mother who has clearly made mistakes, some serious, but loves her children.

I hope that events unfold in a way that your daughter can feel safe enough from all directions to allow you back into her life.

She’s already stated her Mum died when she was 8

I used to work at a place which was used for supervised contacts.
We saw children go to eventually going back to live with them, through to ones who ended up having no contact to protect the child.

But there was a very clear pattern.
Those who said they'd done wrong, and were clear how they were wrong and wanted to improve, were the ones who got the children back again.
Those that put in the effort on their child's terms.

I saw many who like the OP said that it was a vendetta, just a tiny incident, wasn't fair.
But you could tell by the children's reaction that there was far more to it. They weren't comfortable before or during the contact, and the relief at the end was clear. I've seen children crying that they want to go home, don't want to see the parent, refusing to get out of the car before.
Parent arrives, they stop crying, agree with the parent they want to stay with them... Then when the parent has gone they're saying "please I don't want to see them next week".

Op, if you want them back the first thing you need to do is acknowledge that you did parent badly. That might be because you didn't know how, but it doesn't matter.
You work with SS rather than seeing them the enemy. You turn up on time, remember presents (don't go OTT) on birthdays, if they don't want to see you then. "That's fine. Hope to see you another time. Love you" unemotionally will set a calm tone where the child can make a decision on their terms.
Then you ask about face to face meetings.

But if you continue feeling that it isn't fair and you didn't really do anything wrong, I'll be pretty certain that nothing will change
From experience, I'd also be pretty certain that's the right decision for your children too.

I saw that too late. And that it's her ex's parents.

@TheWoofsAndTheMeows don’t think it is bullshit when that’s what happened like I said you wouldn’t know crap as you weren’t involved

OP, you might’ve missed my question upthread but can I ask- how old was your daughter’s dad when you were pregnant at 16 and in care? You were obviously quite vulnerable. Is your son older or younger than your daughter? Do either of the dads have a relationship with the children?

What is your relationship like with their grandparents? Do you just collect your son and go?

Is there any possibility for staying for a cup of tea. Or meeting up outside the house to do something together?

They are her safe people right now and she might need their presence to restart your relationship.

Meeting up somewhere like a play park (ok not in this weather) where she can come and go and interact with you as much or as little as she chooses can also reduce the pressure. Especially if one of her grandparents are there so she knows she can escape if it gets too much for her.