Schools admission criteria......

[LookingforMaryPoppins]

So, my youngest has her heart set on the same grammar school as her sister. She has worked hard and successfully passed the 11 plus. Really proud off her, she is dyslexic so no mean feat.... having just checked the admission criteria, having a sibling at the school makes no difference. Passing the 11 plus is the first criteria followed by children in care, pupil premium and then distance - she is bottom of the pile. If she doesn't get a place, which with that criteria is likely., the option is a sink failing school..... how is that fair?

That criteria sounds good, so those more disadvantaged get bumped up the list. That used to be the point in grammar schools. Many pupil premium kids won't have been tutored to get in like others so will be pure natural ability...

Not sure why unfair to your child. Although I do think extra points should be added for dyslexic children to level the playing field.

At ours they get extra time and they remove the part of the test that would disadvantage them (the spelling and grammar section). My DS is dyslexic but I think he has been adequately accommodated for by the test.

So if you are in care and have passed the 11+ that is one hell of an achievement. Well done! You deserve to be prioritised for access. The rest of life will be stacked against you and a grammar school could be life changing.

I know.

I’ve just helped one of my DD’s friends with her UCAS. She had to get the money for the application from a hardship fund at school because her parents wouldn’t give her the money. When we were doing the personal statement it really hit me that she’s never been anywhere or done anything. No extra curriculars, no going to the theatre.

My dd and I helped her with the personal statement and loan application. Her dad lied on the loan form says he had a job in 23/24 so that she didn’t get the full loan….hopefully we are getting that sorted out though.

Then the day I got back from taking my dd to university I took the friend because there was nobody else to take her. She doesn’t know anyone with a car.

She’s had no help at all, in fact they have actively hindered her and she has no safety net at all.

All children deserve a chance to be successful regardless of the circumstances they are born into. For LAC and PP children that is far more difficult for a wide range of reasons.

OP you have either have no understanding of why extra support for these children is necessary, or you clearly don’t care. I hope it is the former.

Your attitude is appalling towards children in care and PP children. It is vital that they are given an advantage because they are so disadvantaged. Your sense of entitlement shows how uneducated you are on this.

Your child is not disadvantaged compared with looked after children. I can reassure you 100% that even if a child in care goes to the good school & your kid is at the bad school, yours will still have a massive advantage. The school entry criteria goes no where near levelling the field between your child & one in care.

The proportion of children in care who pass the 11+ is tiny.

The proportion of pupil premium children passing the 11+ is also well below the rest of the population.

I didn’t have a clue about any of it until our child piped up that they wanted to try and get into a grammar school after all the secondary school heads from various schools came to talk to them in year 5.
It’s been quite a learning curve! We put ours in for group tutoring which was the most affordable option for us, we didn’t do the holiday intensive courses. I was a little taken aback by how driven some parents were to get them into the schools and how much money they were able to allocate to help them achieve it.
Not all of them passed despite having the tutoring, it’s quite brutal and not something we would have looked into if ours hadn’t insisted on trying to get in.

This is why ordinary families end up sending kids to independent schools..

My goodness you are coming across very badly on here.

My DS passed the 11+ and also happens to be adopted. His school didn't have this criteria that put him up higher in the admissions process. It would only have come into play if he was tied for the last available place with what you have classified as a child from a "normal" family. Admission criteria was calculated on test score ranking and distance

As for not being disadvantaged. Have you any idea of the trauma that adopted and looked after children are dealing with? Maybe head over to the adoption board and read some of the problems they face. My DS's life story would make you sad enough but my DD's would probably have you sobbing. You wouldn't believe a child could cope with what my poor DD has had to

We are not a financially disadvantaged by family at all but the things that my DC have had to contend with are awful.

Wait until you hear that adopted kids get contextual offers for Uni - I imagine your head would explode with rage at the injustice of it.

Would you prefer a child in care who doesn't have a hard working family to support them to not receive the place at the grammar then, when they have passed the 11+ just like both your DDs have?

@LookingforMaryPoppinswas there a sibling priority when your dd1 applied? And yet she still got a place?

If I’ve got this right, your dd1 is either year 11 or year 10- they were the two year groups who did the 11+ on Covid times, the year 12 group having already done it before Covid hit and year 9 weren’t doing the test after gaps in year 5 education. The good news is both year 11 and year 10 are boom years compared to the current year 6s. There are significantly more children born those two years than your dd2’s year. As such, she’s probably got less competition for places than her older sister.

as it’s a grammar that doesn’t factor in how you passed, just that you did, your dd2 has a similar chance of getting in as her sister. If she doesn’t, she’d be close to the top of the waiting list.

So how many children in care and children eligible for the pupil premium pass the 11 plus? I wouldn't imagine that there would be many of them. Your issue is the distance you live from the school which is a personal choice that you made.

You sound bitter that disadvantaged children who have managed to pass the 11 plus get priority. Why don't you move house, either nearer to the grammar school or nearer to a non-selective but high performing secondary school?

I cant believe people like you naturally exist... you are a horrible nasty entitled person.

Shame on you for writing this:

"why children from normal families should be the lowest priority and the most likely to be deprived of decent schooling because they happen to have parents who work."

If anyone is still not understanding, - although I think most are, having read the replies (and I have found this heartening), I have a few examples.

Kids that are in care, or have been in care spend many of their important, formative years in survival mode.

For example, my son has a photographic (for want of a better word) memory - but that's not because he's ultra smart. It's because it's a survival technique he's learnt from birth. If he can remember stuff, it keeps him safe. If 100 people walk into a room, he will remember their names, the order they walked through the door and the mood they were in. Pretty impressive right? He does this because he saw a lot of really bad stuff. If he can remember these things, then he knows when he has to make himself small, to keep himself from drawing attention, to keep himself from being in the firing line - just imagine how knackering that must be and how much brain power that must take, before he even has to think about learning.

My daughter on the other hand was just left in her cot, to cry, she never got her basic needs met - nappy changes, cuddles, FOOD. On the face of it, she's incredibly independent, she doesn't want to have to rely on anyone. She will do anything for attention though, to be seen, and then when you give her attention, she will push you away, before you push her away, because everyone else has let her down, so why wouldn't you? I loved her so much, but she didn't let me in for the first two years.

All of this on top of expecting them to learn alongside other children that have had their loving parents next to them the whole time.

There just seem to be such a lack of understanding of what these kids have to do - to just survive, and what they have to overcome just be on a level playing field.

Any advantage that they can get, is definitely owed to them and I will fight tooth and nail for that advantage.

The addition of VAT to private school fees has removed that choice from a very small minority of people who were in the fortunate position to have that as a choice in the first place. Unfortunately for most of us 'normal' hard work families it has always been completely out of our reach and we have had to settle for the 'sink school' but presumably that didn't bother you as it wasn't your child affected.

But they aren't. Every family whose child passed (therefore is hardworking) is prioritized based on distance. Surely you see that having a sibling can make it unfair too? Kids who don't have siblings are penalized to make things more convenient for families that do, if you want to look at it that way. Also, the local grammars to us only have very few pupils meeting the ehcp, care or pupil premium criteria, can you look up the numbers? At some places you are talking less than 5 kids total in each intake

I am completely opposed to VAT on education, but your statement is ridiculous and untrue.

It hasn’t been removed ‘for the majority’.

The majority cannot afford private education.

It has removed the option for the minority of people who would be really, really stretched but could pay fees if extremely stretched and willing to sacrifice a lot.

You're angry that children in care are being given first dibs entry.

Having a tantrum over this and complaining over unfairness is mind blowing!

It's normal in many schools and it is normally a very small number of pupils.

Don’t worry. The really unfair thing is that disadvantaged children are significantly less likely to pass the 11+. So she should be fine. Even without the totally fair advantage of having a sibling.

Gee whizz , this has riled me.

I don't normally comment on the threads but how much of a back foot exactly do you think children brought up in care are on? Christ on a bike.

Don't worry, OP- with disadvantage the way it is in society there won't be very many PP students or children in care apparently unfairly ahead of your DD in the queue.

So in your opinion it’s not fair that your daughter is not assessed fairly with everyone else. If you’re the child who has grown up in care, and passed from pillar to post or you’re living in poverty and sharing a room with several siblings so it’s hard to study, do you think they feel life is fair? You have to be pretty ignorant or selfish to feel those children shouldn’t have an opportunity to even up the odd’s for them.

All schools / educational establishments have criteria like this. Even Oxford runs events to try and give opportunities to less advantaged DC. My DD attended an event there this summer aimed at state school pupils who haven’t benefitted from private education etc.

Life is never fair, but you need to check your privilege. My DD has attended a state school and got all 9’s in her GCSE’s (she didn’t want to apply for the hugely oversubscribed grammars in our local area, Wallington girls etc though did turn down a 6th form place there). But I still consider she is more privileged than many as she has 2 parents (seperated) who are very interested in her education, she has her own room to study (unlike her cousins who share 4 to a bedroom), she has opportunities through her parents jobs to get work experience and she also has the benefits of connections, mainly through her dad via his job. Whilst her own life isn’t overly privileged (she lives in a flat, we are not rich) we make it clear to her that not all kids receive the benefits she has and she should always live her life knowing she’s had a leg up some kids don’t get. And be humble.

OP watch this video

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7vR3Oovhi1Q

Kids in care will have taken priority over your other daughter as well, that has been the position for years. I'm not sure about pupil premium. But in any event, those kids won't take precedence over yours unless they also passed the 11+. Apply for the school and save the drama for later if she doesn't get a space.

OP: ugh the povvos are ruining the chances of my darling Araminthia. It just so unfair the great unwashed exist and ruin the chances of my darling privileged daughter having even more advantage in life.

Look at this year’s intake. It is not likely to be a high proportion who qualify in those categories, leaving the majority of places allocated as previously. Perhaps you should be grateful that your dds do not have to overcome the challenge's other children might. Has the criteria actually changed (in which case there would have been a consultation) or did you just overlook it in dd1 case because she got in. A sibling link , if it ever existed, would often be below those categories anyway.