Schools admission criteria......

[LookingforMaryPoppins]

So, my youngest has her heart set on the same grammar school as her sister. She has worked hard and successfully passed the 11 plus. Really proud off her, she is dyslexic so no mean feat.... having just checked the admission criteria, having a sibling at the school makes no difference. Passing the 11 plus is the first criteria followed by children in care, pupil premium and then distance - she is bottom of the pile. If she doesn't get a place, which with that criteria is likely., the option is a sink failing school..... how is that fair?

Why do pupil premium kids get preferential treatment?

It'll be because they were previously under represented. ie. Bright kids on a low income were less likely to get in due to not being able to afford tutoring/revision books etc.

Is this not the case anymore?
First I’ve heard!

Because the school get additional funding.

BS.

@darksofacrime
Yep, I turned down a scholarship to a single sex private school with same concerns re bullying. And did very well in a poor comp, although I did teach myself much of the curriculum from revision guides. Had I not been very motivated and a clear career goal, it would have been a very different outcome.

We are not pushing for grammar, it's very much our daughters choice. As well as being academic she is very sporty and into drama, and the fact that both of these are far superior at the grammar compared to both our local comps is the draw for her. Along with the rumours about a lot of violence at our catchmented comp, which I also wouldn't be keen on her going too. Our other local comp is fine, but she is by no means guaranteed a place where, our village gets places some years and not others, and in her intake there will be loads of siblings which reduces her chances - bloody siblings policies again.

Anyone else who gets in has also passed the 11+

So how would it be fair if another bright child from a hard working family who values education who lives closer but just so happens to be the eldest didn’t get a place because of sibling application?

You can phrase things however you like @LookingforMaryPoppins - if passing the 11+ is the first criteria then it’s safe to assume every family or child who gets in values education.

Or look at the another way, perhaps Covid meant you are lucky one of your children got into the grammar.

No of course no one wants their child to go to on paper a sink school but how you approach life and the circumstances you are in can influence your child immensely. Results aren’t everything there might be opportunities and amazing teachers you are dismissing because of what’s on paper.
If, and it’s still an if, she doesn’t get into grammar having a mum complaining it’s a crap school and it’s not fair she’s set up for failure now at the grand old age of 11 will be hugely damaging.

whoever gets a place is also deserving as they passed the 11+ as well

School applications can be a gamble. Some you win some you might lose.

Schools do indeed get additional funding for pupils receiving pupil premium. In the current financial year, primary schools get an extra £1,515 for each pupil receiving pupil premium, secondary schools get £1,075.

Why do the government do this? We know that parental income is the best predictor of a child's educational outcome. That is changing in England, albeit slowly, as the outcomes for pupils from disadvantaged backgrounds is improving. Pupil premium is designed to help with that by providing schools with additional funding they can use to help disadvantaged pupils.

PP children (which also include forces children and children that are cared for as well)are under represented in grammar schools. Said schools have been under pressure to raise numbers.

These children receive extra funding for very good reason.

I think the BS comment was a response to the additional funding being a reason PP pupils being higher up the admissions criteria.

Cynically, a grammar school is onto a winner if they take in more PP students. These are students that passed the 11+, so it's fairly safe to says that they've been protected from some of the disadvantages that are statistically more likely for pupils receiving PP.

More BS. My DD passed the 11+. She was born addicted to drugs and alcohol, she has foetal alcohol spectrum disorder, autism, ADHD and a rare autoimmune disease that is treated with weekly chemotherapy. Oh, and just to complete the full bingo card, she is blind and is a FSM student. I wonder which factors you think she has been protected from? So many bitter and sharp-elbowed people on this thread who resent poor and disadvantaged children having some perceived advantage over their heavily tutored children.

That's a shed load of projection on a single sentence.

If you read all of my other posts on this thread, I am fully in favour of PP children being above others in admissions criteria for grammar schools. It doesn't stop me knowing, as a senior leader in a school, that PP children come with additional funding. This funding is often used for extra teaching/interventions because these children do, on average, perform poorly academically. Your daughter, and others who get into a grammar, are not performing poorly academically. So, as I said, they've been protected from some of the disadvantages that are statistically more likely for children who are eligible for PP. Note that I never said they've been protected from all of the disadvantages. Note that I never said that shouldn't be prioritized. I just said that there are cynical, as well as virtuous, reasons for this.

I'm glad your DD is doing so well. I'm sure you're a major part of that. I'm sorry that I somehow upset you, even though it was unintentional.

Can I ask why you think you need tutoring to pass neither my children or my friends children had tutoring and my daughter passed in the top 2 percent

@Y7mum really depends on which 11+ plus process you are looking at. Round here it uses the entire year 6 curriculum so unless you have been taught the entire curriculum by the September you aren’t going to make it

I hope Labour are never voted in again after the damage they have caused to many parents having a choice of private school or not.

it’s now the
preserve of the uber rich

That's fair I'm in medway so it uses mostly y6 maths and reading comprehension but it also has verbal and non verbal reasoning which you don't learn in school. Plus our council provides free practice papers

Kent is very different from Sutton/Tiffin where schools don’t get involved at all and the former has no verbal or non verbal reasoning and the competition is much much higher in Sutton

Kent still tends to follow a little the old system of if you are bright you pass!

My children did medway not Kent test kent is no all multiple choice and has creative writing medway is multiple choice and cw is only used to assess borderline passes since last year which my children were sad about as they love cw. Can I also ask if you think the kent system is good or bad as I couldn't tell from ur comment

It always was.

Is passing enough? Cos it isn’t for Sutton

anyway no two grammars are the same. Even where I live it isn’t - Tiffin is unique and unless you live in a specific postcode no chance. Wallington Grammar is just first stage and you can pass and get a good enough mark for Wallington and Sutton and still fail to get into Wilson’s (which is incredibly competitive and frankly has the GCSEs results to prove why)

none of these have a sibling rule I don’t think

Some parents need to pay for their child to have lots of tutoring in order for them to try and pass 11+. Because without the tutoring it probably wont happen. I bet some parents become quite obsessed.

It’s the kids like yours who pass it without the tutoring who are naturally gifted. Including the children who are disadvantaged and haven’t had any tutoring, and go on to pass their 11+. Too right they should be at the top.

Where we live schools can't choose based on mark. My daughters school has sibling criteria

We could have afforded tutoring but my daughter was adamant she didn't want to and that if she passed she passed. Many schools in our area have free 11+ tutoring as well

Feeling grateful to live in a city with no grammar schools!

Imagine that, everyone has to go to the "sink" school except those who can afford private of course