Schools admission criteria......

[LookingforMaryPoppins]

So, my youngest has her heart set on the same grammar school as her sister. She has worked hard and successfully passed the 11 plus. Really proud off her, she is dyslexic so no mean feat.... having just checked the admission criteria, having a sibling at the school makes no difference. Passing the 11 plus is the first criteria followed by children in care, pupil premium and then distance - she is bottom of the pile. If she doesn't get a place, which with that criteria is likely., the option is a sink failing school..... how is that fair?

Not a fan of grammars. If your area didn’t have one your other choice of school wouldn’t be so shit. And everyone would go to their nearest school. Better for everyone. Grammars need to die out.
I realise that means postcodes are the only deciding factor but that’s less worse than having one school creaming off all the bright children (or more likely the ones with resources and support at home).

It does mean they are disadvantaged in some way, that's the whole point of it.

Also, your logic is incredibly flawed. You want your child to have more opportunity to get in than others who have passed simply because she has a sister who also passed and got in.

Why should children who work hard and value education not have the same opportunities because of their parents? Or children who show good academic potential, without tutoring.

Children in care or on PP often have had past trauma, a lack of involved parents or absent parents all together. They haven't had a lot of support. Parents to go over phonics or reading. Hugely disadvantaged.

All the schools in our area, selective or not, prioritise children in care and those with pupil premium. I don’t have an issue with that. Especially when it comes to grammars, how many of those pupils do you think manage to pass the exam?

OTOH I do have an issue with the distance criterion for the grammar schools. We are (just about) in catchment, but based on the previous 4 years statistics my DC would not get in. If it’s a selective school with a catchment why should distance be a factor at all and not just accept students in reverse order of exam scores?

Lac and plac children are the most vulnerable in society. It is right that they are prioritised.

I don't fully understand your op, but I assume you're saying that lac and pp children who pass the 11+ are first and then all others. In which case they're not filling a cohort with 11+ passing lac/plac and pp children.

@Jugjug

Reform would remove VAT private schools, increase grammars/selective schools, segregate off SEND children with more pupil referral units. It’s basically survival of the fittest/richest - and any child with needs pulled out of their local community and partitioned off.
I have no doubt the PRU’s won’t get adequate funding with abuse/safety concerns/high staff turnover in favour of preserving the quality of life of the advantaged.

I will be home schooling if that happens and I will have no job.

Are you suggesting that anybody beyond the threshold of pupil premium entitlement is middle class?
Because of course they aren't.

In fact this is an intervention that is most painful for working class children whose parents work, being both outside the privilege of tutoring and the new rules affording priority to children of workless parents.

This. Your sense of entitlement is off the scale. How do you know those children in care aren't placed with "hardworking" families, that those with pupil premium aren't. Because your income is higher you think you get first dibs?! Or you think you're "harder-working". Get a grip. Teach your children a better attitude than you have.

To get pupil premium you have to be very poor.

Also op look at your local stats.they prioritise those DC because they barely ever get in!! Even with that priority, the grammar near me still has only about 3% of children who are pp.

Honestly, it will probably have less impact than you think, the proportion of DC on pupil premium who will pass the test will not be high.

I think there needs to be more education as to what pp actually means, you seem to be under the impression it is only for those who never work, which is rarely the case.

I dont understand. Surely the places go to those who passed 11+ first ? Or is it that plus distance ? The numbers of care children and pupil premium won't make a big difference..ring the school and get a clearer understanding of what is going on..she has the 11+ is there not another grammar option ( yes not ideal but ..)
surely there are not loads of 11+ children with no corresponding school to go to ?

You are confused.

A child receiving free school meals also has to pass the 11 plus.

This would be impressive without the intensive tutoring other wealthier families use

You sound like a nasty snob thinking your child deserves a better education than children from less well off families

By the way the vat on fees absolutely does not impact many families at all. As 93 per cent of children go to state schools anyway

The pupil premium threshold is for households who earn less than £7400. With minimum wage as it is, these children come from homes where work is just a gesture .

It sounds like normal selection criteria to me. Looked after children always rank higher in the grammar schools around here too. It’s obvious there is no sibling rule, it’s a selective school based on academic achievement.

Perhaps look at historic pass rates. I take it you’re in catchment? What score did your daughter get? What is the minimum score to get a place over the last 5 years? If she is within that, then surely she stands a good chance. There is no pass or fail with the 11+ normally, they’re ranked and the top X % get a place.

Were you half-asleep when you wrote this? It makes no sense.

In any given school there are very few numbers of lac (looked after children, the new name for children in care)

it’s been standard for lac children to be category 1 for admissions in state schools for well over a decade.

in my last secondary of 2000 kids we had between 10-13 lac children at any given time.

children in care are not going to fill a year group or anything like it, and in addition they have usually had hugely traumatic early years. I don’t begrudge them anything and neither should you.

You need to read more deeply into it.

Or where there is a family member with serious health issues or disabilities which make it impossible for the parent to work. In spite of the misinformation on social media, these cases do exist, and it's right for the children in such families to get a bit of extra support.

So children of parents who work hard but carry their own overheads, leaving them without enough disposable income to afford tutoring, are not being disadvantaged by these changes?

You sound like those private school parents bleating on about how unfair university contextual offers are because it ever so slightly reduces the massive advantage their kids have had for years. How many kids in care and under pupil premium do you think are going to be hoovering up these grammar school places? Hardly any.

Aren't they all hardworking families?

No. They are already advantaged by the exact things you mention. That's the point.

No, they are being put on a level footing. Hardly any pupil premium children will pass without tutoring, the tests are designed that way.

Pupil Premium last 6 years under the 'Ever 6', this is because such children are found to have suffered an ongoing disadvantage, which isn't fair or right. The strong likelihood is that in the op's case this will have no impact at all.

They are advantaged by not having enough money for tutoring and by being pushed down the school admissions criteria to make way for children whose parent spend more time at home?

It's amazing that most MNers who live in Grammar school areas think grammar schools are a fantastic idea until their DC fails to get a place. Then suddenly the system is unfair.