Schools admission criteria......

[LookingforMaryPoppins]

So, my youngest has her heart set on the same grammar school as her sister. She has worked hard and successfully passed the 11 plus. Really proud off her, she is dyslexic so no mean feat.... having just checked the admission criteria, having a sibling at the school makes no difference. Passing the 11 plus is the first criteria followed by children in care, pupil premium and then distance - she is bottom of the pile. If she doesn't get a place, which with that criteria is likely., the option is a sink failing school..... how is that fair?

^^This! Well said! 🙌🏻

You are very unreasonable to be resentful of children in care or low income. I bet there isn't a high proportion at the school anyway.
Why would a grammar prioritise siblings when it's supposed to be about ability?
If a child doesn't get into grammar on the strength of their ability they'd probably have struggled anyway. No fun being bottom of the class

I’d really like to see the figures behind this post, please.

Exactly they don’t all provide the same care, so some parents of children with an EHCP are going to be drawn to the schools with the best SEN provision for their child and they will apply for that one.
I know it would be unfair for a child in catchment to not get a place, but it would also be unfair for child with an EHCP to be in a school that provides inadequate care and support for their needs that the child in catchment may not have.

I know some children have SEN but don’t have an EHCP as they can be difficult to get even when the needs are still there. So I know there will be children in catchment whose parents have moved close to that school clinging on to the hope that their child will get a place based on catchment rather than EHCP.
But you could argue that those families have the money to move which is an advantage they can still use if they need to. Whereas you might have a family whose child does have the EHCP but lives out of catchment and the parents don’t have the money to move anywhere, so the criteria just closes the gap a bit.

It’s horrible and we’re all just trying to do what’s best for our children. But I do think care and attention should be given to the absolute most vulnerable first.

My son gets pupil premium. I work hard and so does he to stay academically in the top few percent of his school. Don't presume anyone getting pupil premium is thick or doesn't care about education.

@FancyBiscuitsLevelI think they do weight the exam? Well in the Kent test anyway - the pass mark for each section was 106 last year and this year it was 108. I assumed this was so that roughly the same number passed each year.

I’m starting to wonder if the op even knows what “children in care” means tbh because there’s surely no way anyone thinks like that

It's hard to believe, isn't it? I taught a girl last year who was in yr8 and had lived in 6 different foster care placements all over the city.
Another girl had turned up at her foster carers without even a toothbrush. I genuinely think some people have absolutely no idea. None.

I’m starting to wonder if the OP is here for the journo quotes, or something.

But different types of SEND require different adjustments.

Two schools local to me (1 primary, 1 secondary) have 'Deaf base' they employ a teacher of the deaf, they have interpreters in classrooms.

It would be crazy to not give priority to a Deaf child.

It's a selective school, you can't honestly think they should be giving places to siblings over kids who scored higher.
When your older child passed, would you have been happy for her to lose her place to siblings who scored less than her?

Wow, imagine thinking that a child in care is not on a back foot already.

Take a look at the numbers of looked after and pupil premium children currently at the school. This should reassure you that most places are given to what you call hard-working families.

You look at the majority of school admission criteria, in any part of England, regardless if they're grammar or not, and I can guarantee that children in care/pupil premium will be top of the admissions pile. It maybe that the grammar school has changed their policy more recently, but that's probably to aline with most other schools. If there's no sibling criteria, which for a grammar is probably unlikely, then distance is your next criteria. My son goes to a state non-grammar school and the admissions criteria is the same - children in care, pupil premium, sibling and distance. We got into the school on distance. Passing the 11+ at both the girls and boys grammar school in my area, is not a guarantee of a place. It depends on the pass mark, and some children who pass aren't offered a place, because other children obtained a better pass mark, so they fall down the list. It then comes down to criteria on top as well, in some cases. Unfortunately, it's how the process works. No child deserves to go to an under performing school and receive a poor education. I don't think the grammar school are being unfair, they are simply following their own policy, and unfortunately it does mean some children won't be offered a placement.

So you think looked after children aren't also in homes where the parents work hard and value education? Why do you assume that pupile premium kids - so low income families - don't value education and work hard albeit more likely in minimum wage than upper management?

What you mean is why can't us nice middle class nuclear parents have priority over those kids who have had to face more challenges in their lives just to get to the same academic point.

In what way does it mean they may not be disadvantaged? The number of children in care/previously in care and pupil premium will be very small I’m sure. So I doubt it’ll have that much affect on the admissions anyway. It certainly doesn’t for our grammar schools.
What makes you think those families don’t value education & what makes them not “normal”???

Your child is more likely to lose a place on distance than anything else. A 15 minute train ride to the area of the school is quite a distance. Most children are in walking distance of our nearest grammar. If you are already having to travel on train to get to the grammar I find it hard to believe your only other option is a failing secondary. There must be other high schools within that radius of milage that are decent schools.

Is this for real? “I want my child to go to a school which widens inequalities but I’m annoyed at the inequality of it”? Children in care legally have to be prioritised for places (ie first in the admissions criteria) for any State funded school, and if you had any idea of the educational outcomes and reasons behind them for children in care you’d understand that.

Children in Carer- absolutely

I don't think pupil premium should get priority. Why? The criteria is UC plus income less than £7400. Which means less than min wage if they had worked full time, which by default means part time. Which means they have more time with their kids- collect / drop/ do homework etc than family whose parent works FT in low paying job (but just above MW) whose disposable income is likely to be less...and has LESS TIME. These FT working families also aren't in a position to pay for tutoring, but don't have the same time to spend with their kids.

So, I can see why it's a tad annoying if you were in this bracket and a PP child got priority.

Our benefits system means that there is not a huge difference on monthly take home between lots of different scenarios (check it out by plugging figures into 'entitled to' and 'salary calculator ' for families who have no savings.

@Crazybigtoe not necessarily. The parent could be an unpaid carer to their parent/sibling, say, and effectively working full time at that.

How on earth is in unfair??? Bloody poor people expecting to be able to better their prospects. How dare they! They should be working in care homes and sweeping our streets not dreaming of going to uni…

There appear to be 163 grammar schools in England V approx 3000 comps……..

So what have the distances been like for those children given places under the ‘distance to school’ criterion, for the last 4 years? And how does it compare to the distance that you live? Are you sure your child wouldn’t get in under distance? If they didn’t, surely they would be quite high on the waiting list afterwards? At schools near us, there is quite a lot of movement in the waiting lists in the months running up to school starting in September, so you might find that while your dc doesn’t get a place on offers day, they may get a place from the waiting list in September. There is also movement during year 7 - so at a school I know there was a place that came up 2 weeks into September of year 7, and a place that came up at Christmas of year 7 - and there may have been others. Start of year 8 might also be another time when places become available.

So - my advice is try not to panic. Do your research now about previous furthest distances offered, and waiting list movement (the secondary school should be able to help with this, or post on the 11plus forum, or on MN, with questions about the specific schools you are looking at). Your dc may be lucky and get a place on distance, if not, make sure you go on wait lists for the schools you want, and make sure to accept the school you are offered on offer day.

If a child is motivated and supported at home then they can achieve well, at whatever school they go to.

I agree with this.
YABVU many children who are on pupil premium (which now requires an extremely low household income) will have disadvantages that makes it harder to pass the 11 plus. They may be living in poverty in overcrowded accommodation for example. We have a grammer school in our area and most parents who have the money tutor their children to within an inch of their life to get them into the school, some even attend a private primary and then use grammer for secondary. This is not be an option for a child on pupil premium so they are disadvantaged further.
Personally, I think the exam should be changed so it is very difficult to tutor for it, like maybe a CATS test.
As for children in care, I can’t believe that you are even questioning that!

Many grammar schools allow children with EHCPs to attend as a priority intake as long as they have passed the 11+ entry exam.

Does your child not have an EHCP? (You mentioned she’s dyslexic.)

How many kids in care will have had an 11+ tutor, if they passed they probably very much deserve the place! Distance always makes up the bulk of the decision