Schools admission criteria......

[LookingforMaryPoppins]

So, my youngest has her heart set on the same grammar school as her sister. She has worked hard and successfully passed the 11 plus. Really proud off her, she is dyslexic so no mean feat.... having just checked the admission criteria, having a sibling at the school makes no difference. Passing the 11 plus is the first criteria followed by children in care, pupil premium and then distance - she is bottom of the pile. If she doesn't get a place, which with that criteria is likely., the option is a sink failing school..... how is that fair?

That’s because there’s no pass or fail in reality. It’s all score based. A score of 200 is a “pass” for x school where the lowest score admitted was 188 and a fail for y school where the lowest score was 210. The benchmark also moves depending on the number of applications and cohort scores.

There are lots of posters talking ideologically. Yes state schools should all be excellent, you aren’t going to find many who don’t want that. Some state schools are truly amazing, but they don’t seem to be the norm, often their locations are highly sought after, so you have parents attempting to buy their way in, via catchment or grammar priority zones. OP doesn’t sound like they live in the priority zone, that being the case a place was always highly unlikely, my understanding is they take top 12%, so it’s stiff competition based on test scores only. If a student doesn’t fit zone criteria, grammar schools can choose kids with excellent scores from miles away.

But it’s rich competing with rich so who cares. And we should be looking at how shite grammars are- for society as a whole, MH and quality of teaching which is often lazy. Thankfully there are few them. It’s time to stop belly aching over grammar and private schools which only a tiny fraction attend and focus on provision for the majority. It’s a distraction that wealthy families want us all to continuously bicker over and focus on. Leave them to it.

How many pupils in care or on pupil premium do you think there will be who have passed? The LEA will have stats on this from previous years so you don't have to guess. The answer will be not very many.

The LEA will also show the furthest distance that kids who passed and aren't in the other criteria and were admitted in the last few years.

My main issue with grammar schools is that they cause the non-grammer schools around them to slide into being sink schools as the population divides between them. The number of pupils and families who value education is insufficient to dilute the feckless and badly-behaved. You end up with a highlly desirable school and a school to absolutely avoid, and while some children will do about as well in either school, disruption is usually rife and opportunities (extra-curricular, subject choice, even the chance to try a foreign language) are more limited because of lack of interest or a need to focus on the basics. This the issue, not the OPs worry that DC2 will not benefit from an anomaly that may have benefitted the elder child.

There probably won't be many pupil premium children applying to grammar schools as their parent(s) will not have the cash or the time to send their children to tutoring and coaching for two to three years prior to sitting the 11+ years. However if they do pass then they should be getting the place because they are naturally able.
It is sad that the selective schools cream off the bright, keen, those with supportive and or wealthy parents and leave the other school in town to the can'ts and won'ts or as OP calls it a sink school

its very common for children in care, and previously looked after children to be near the top of the criteria, in state schools. Usually these children are in foster care or with adopters, so living with hard working people that value education, and are vulnerable children that have had a bad start in life. It is right that they are given priority in so many school admission policies. Especially as it’s likely these children would have had to overcome so much adversity to pass their 11 plus

@LookingforMaryPoppins unfortunately the entire education system isn’t “fair”. You are fortunate to live in an area with academically selective schools as vast swathes of the country don’t have that option available to them.

The current system fails our children. We need excellent state schools available for all children, and a system where parents can access an education suitable for their child (an academically school isn’t right for everyone). Faith schools aren’t “fair”, as those state funded schools can discriminate based on religion. Any school with a catchment area or criteria based on distance isn’t “fair” as those who can afford to move and pay higher house prices to be nearer the school are at an advantage. Some areas of the country have excellent comprehensives available. For others, the only option is underperforming schools. That’s not “fair”.

The bigger problem was the ban on creating new grammar schools in the areas that still have them. So if a grammar school closed down, that was it for the places. It lead to issues like the OPs one- her dd has passed the 11+ but still might not get a place at a grammar school as the number of places available in grammar schools is not linked to the number who pass. They don’t weight the 11+ exam to ensure it’s harder to pass in a boom year and keep the number of places available in grammar matching the who pass.

it’s really common for children who have passed the 11+ not to get a grammar place. Which seems unfair, if you are going to have the system, there needs to be the right number of places. (this problem may solve itself as the birth rate falls and grammars don’t cut their places.)

So what exactly is the complaint here?

Op you are effctively saying:

'My sister goes to that school'

should trump

'my parents are dead, I live in care, noone pays for my tutoring or helps me with homework and I still passed the 11 plus and want to commit to my studies'.

What is a sink school?

How dare the children in care have any priority access to education. The reality is they may not remain at the school for their entire education. The could be relocated to a different home that is too far travel. They will highly likely not received any tutoring to assist in the application process. Your daughters are fortunate it is probable they have a secure home and have parents. Children in care do not have secure homes and would not be in care if they had stable parents. Seriously count your blessings and reflect upon the opportunities your daughters have.

It’s time to stop belly aching over grammar and private schools which only a tiny fraction attend and focus on provision for the majority.

I totally agree. Too many people are focussing their attention on grammars and the independent sector, which relatively few children attend. I don’t know why there isn’t more of a fuss made of the failing comprehensives which too many children have to attend. Unfortunately I can’t see it changing any time soon because the current government are too interested in achieving equality by dragging great schools down rather than improving the lower performing ones.

I agree, compared to the total number of pupils there will be very few who were disadvantaged (ie either been in care or eligible for free school meals).

I live in a county that got rid of the 11+ in 1976 so cannot compare directly. however, in the top performing school in the city where we live, there are 11.5% disadvantaged pupils.

This compares with 25% at an averagely performing school in the city and 49% for a poorly performing school.

In a neighbouring county they do still have the 11+. In a town about 15 miles north of us they have a grammar school that achieves similar results to the best performing school in our city. They only have 8.8% disadvantaged pupils.

Or, also not far from us, the state school that had the best academic results in the East Midlands (according to The Sunday Times Best Schools Guide 2025), The King's School Grantham, has just 6.2% disadvantaged pupils.

This is the reality of how few disadvantaged pupils make it into grammar schools.

So, I don't think that you need to overly worry on this point.

Children in Care and Care Leavers have a battle to achieve educationally those who are privileged cannot possibly imagine. Only 6% of care leavers access higher education compared to 49% of their peers. There is no guarantee that they are able to remain at the school of choice either.

I agree with this my kids get pupil premium we’re not rich but can’t say they have a bad life.

kids in care though have definitely struggled no family to look out for them. What a heartless mindset to begrudge them this. It’s not like they’re going to actually stop ops child going to that school when they’re a tiny percentage of the population

I can't see how the admission criteria has changed. Children in care and pupil premium has been at the top of every admission criteria for many, many years, a decade or 2 before COVID.

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DC are at a grammar. Percentage of FSM entitled children is just under 3%. In their year groups of 150 that equals 4.5 pupils on average. Hardly the difference between getting a place and not getting a place. You’re being ridiculous OP. And PP and looked after children have been critera 1 for years. Kids in this criteria don’t often feature heavily in grammar schools, for exactly the reason they are put at criteria 1.

I think that ‘mostly’ the level of early trauma (with the huge impact this has on very young children and their developing brain) outweighs a lot of other types of disadvantage.

Bit rich moaning that an unfair system has been made less unfair when it doesn’t suit you anymore.

Did you just say your daughter is on the back foot versus kids in care or on pupil premium?! Have a word with yourself!

any child that isn't in care or pupil premium is on a back foot.

Those inconvenient children in care, they get everything handed to them on a plate… or a bin liner when they are moved from home to home with little belongings after years of abuse or neglect.

Well said! OP sounds misinformed and insufferable. Love the way her daughters dyslexia is seen as a genuine struggle, but spending your life in the care system is disregarded. Good (read middle class), hardworking (read middle class) families should always be considered first of course 🙄