Angry at house seller?

[perfectpotato]

Had our offer accepted, in the middle of the legal process and we’ve had got the fixtures and fittings form from the vendors.

They are taking with them all the column radiators (will be replacing with basic ones), all light fixtures - they had these beautiful sconce marble light fixtures that they will be taking and they are have a fixed mirror in the bathroom, has Bluetooth and different lighting and they are taking that too.

My partner doesn’t seem bothered but I’m really upset, Aibu?

I think the vast majority of people would expect radiators to stay.

That said, if they are expensive designer radiators they could be worth big money, say £500 a radiator and 14 radiators that could be £7K.

They might manage to replace them with radiators costing £100 a piece and do the work themselves (actually replacing radiators is not that difficult). So they could make about £5k by doing it.

I would want to discount the price after viewing. I would also make sure they didn't do something crazy like replace them with wall mounted ones that you later wanted to remove back to the column style, leaving big holes to rectify in the walls and a load of scrap metal.

I was always taught that carpets curtains and lightings were removable but whether they automatically stayed or not was in the brief about the property I.e comes/doesn’t come/ or is negotiable

Any fitted kitchen, wardrobes, shelving or cupboards I.e those that are screwed or glued onto the walls were part of what you were buying. However if there was something I.e. Antique wall cabinet screwed onto the wall that was not part of the sale it would have been mentioned in the particulars and an undertaking that the vendor would make good the walls

Is it not true that you took the highest offer anyone was prepared to make within whatever constraints you placed on the sale? Did someone who was proceedable in your timeframe offer higher and you just on a whim decided not to take it?

Oooh that is avery good point as well

In Holland it used to be (not sure if it is now) perfectly normal to take all the bathroom fittings when you left a house, sink, bath, taps, the lot. That was 20 years ago and IDK if it's changed, but legally, you're only buying the roof, floors and walls to a depth of 1/4 inch from the surface in old money.

What difference do you think the style of radiator makes to the system’s efficiency, and therefore the overall EPC?

As an agent I can say that radiators is completely not normal and will be costly to them so Iw oudl query this with the agent and suggest I would be looking for legal reassurances surrounding them using a qualified and registered plumber who will certify off the work and that the new radators have adequate BTU grading for the spaces concerned and that the system has been balanced accodingly after the change and that any decor will be made good.

The mirror and the light fittings are fair game I am afraid, but I would be asking for assurances surrounding how this will be dealt with to ensure it is left safe and be seeking assurance this will be completed by a suitably registered electrician and any decor made good.

We did remove the dining room light fitting when we left in our old home as it cost me a fortune and had some memories/sotries associated, but we had our electrician in to put un a standard pendant and had decorated below the light fitting before it was fitted to ensure we didnt leave them with unfinished decor.

It doesn’t. And changing a radiator from a vertical one to a normal one doesn’t make much difference. You’d go with the same output (single, double, triple). Any plumber you got in would know what they were doing.

I doubt many people would go to the hassle of doing it themselves.

That was what I thought. I can see why buyer might be frustrated but some of the quotes and reasoning being suggested is just spiteful ignorance.

Column radiators are more efficient tjough is it could be a valid point. Horizontal or vertical. We were looking at them because we do like the old style cast iron radiator looks.

I think most agree on radiators, but a marble light fitting wouldn't be something I'd expect to be left behind unless maybe if probate and old fashioned.

Absolutely, nothing here is shocking as sellers are replacing the radiators.

It would be one thing if they didn't leave any behing but bare walls.

And by that logic, the seller should be happy to negotiate a new lower price for a house with basic radiators. Because the ones being sold are not the ones seen at offer time.

My understanding is that if a thing is ‘permanently’ fixed…i.e. screwed down or similarly fixed then it is part of the house, so to speak. If they’re taking the radiators etc. then why stop there, why not take the taps and the bath and the lavatory? Unless you screwed them down on the house price and they’re doing this as petty revenge then watch out, you may find other things missing. I remember the days when people taking the light bulbs was considered cheap…

As previously stated by PPs, if stated in the declaration it's not underhanded.

Just because it was in the listing/viewing doesn't guarantee it's staying.

some are happy to leave a £10k Aga whilst others will take a £10 fixture as it has sentimental value.

Both sides can negotiate whichever way they like.
As the seller said, some people don't like certain things and she'd rather not risk it being skipped.

If buyer wants to have them, a conversation is all that was needed, but now it's been outed on here and soured relations.

Not every seller is desperate to sell as some people seem to think on here.

Absolutely do not allow them to replace the radiators themselves.

If OP wants to let them take them out (with a renegotiation on price). Ok.

But they must choose their own plumber and radiators because the contract should be their own in case anything goes wrong; and oversee the redecoration themselves.

The sellers have no incentive to do the jobs for anything but the cheapest price therefore it may be botched.

That seems like cheating on the part of the ve dors to me. That should have been clearly stated in the estate agents brochure and mentioned at viewing.

I didn't say it was underhand. I said I assume the seller would be happy to negoatiate a new price.

I mean, if you found out someone had misunderstood and thought something was included when it wasn't, sure you might be a bit disappointed but once you knew that they'd based their offer on faulty information you'd not expect them to still pay the same price would you? I mean, that would be entitled and underhand!

I don't especially sit on either the buyers' side or the sellers' side, but I do care about fair and efficient markets and I'm pretty aghast at some of the comments being made.

In the case of house sales, other than unknown nasties in the searches or surveys, the seller has all the information going in and the buyer has none. That gives the seller a lot of uneven power in the initial agreement.

What I aim to do is to remind sellers that it is entirely reasonable for buyers to need to adjust their offer as they gather more information. Indeed it's the reason we don't set a binding price until exchange.

So whether a seller thinks that buyers "should" assume something will or will not be included when they offer is not really relevent.

The reality is that if a buyer has offered based on faulty information they have both a legal and a moral right to conclude their original offer is now overpriced and reopen negotiations.

The seller likewise has every right to refuse. And if the buyer and seller cannot come to an agreement it goes back on the market.

What the seller cannot do is force the buyer to buy at the original offer simply because the seller thinks the buyer "should" have known something that the seller did not in fact bother to tell them.

(Though I have to admit I do wonder whether all the "it's just bricks and mortar" posters would expect a lovely finished property to sell for the same price as the doer-upper next door.)

Not if their son in law/best mates daughter is a heating engineer. Or maybe the seller is into DIY.

Most people don't do it because radiators aren't that expensive and yes there will be 2 lots of costs or effort, one to remove them and another to refit them. Additionally they might not even fit in the new place !

But some radiators are absurdly expensive, I've seen ones worth up to £1K each (I doubt whether all the ones in my house are worth that much), which makes the whole exercise worthy of consideration if you can do it free of labour costs.

But if I was doing something so non standard, I would actually make potential buyers aware of it at the listing stage or through the agent on viewing, rather than bringing it out of nowhere once the conveyancing process has started.

What about fireplaces? I might buy a house thinking the original ones are part of the house, but could they replace them with cheap imitations?

don't "think" and "assume" anything. That's literally what the fixtures and fittings form is for.

Real problem start when people lie, but as long as it's clear from the start.

No-one is stopping anyone from requesting the form to be filled in from the start, to be clear on what is actually included.

Should therefore people not expect boiler to come with the house? That was first one on my form.
Or sockets or kitchen fitted units and so on. These are all on the form.

Since we shouldn't assume and that's what the form is for.

Is it in the contract that you keep the fixtures and fittings. Ask them where they got them from then you can have your own ones.

if it's there, it means that no, you shouldn't assume that that very boiler was included.

Why would anyone want to swap a boiler I have no idea, but if it's not ticked on the form, it means having one, or one in working order, is not part of the sell!

sockets or kitchen fitted units
I absolutely wouldn't assume any of those are included. Some properties have bog standards one, but many properties have more expensive ones. In a world where people take their light bulbs and loo roll with them, I woudn't trust anyone 😂

I took the door handles one. I replaced them, and with some semi-decent ones, but I had spent a lot of time and money to find beautiful and expensive ones, I sure wasn't going to give them away to the buyer.

I also think that sellers are more likely to be petty when they buyer has been a pain, dropped the price too low and made things complicated.