Do men need postpartum support?

[theprincessthepea]

Influenced by another thread which has made me reflect on how having a baby has affected my relationship, it has made me wonder if men need some level of support postpartum. Yes, we drag them along to antenatal classes, we tell them how they can support us, we tell them to suck it up because the women will need them, we remind them that they can take paternity leave and that they should fight for it etc etc

But on reflection, I’ve had two children.

My first I had very bad postnatal depression, the relationship did not survive three years in. Which led to coparenting. We probably would have broken up with or without the baby but there was a struggle on my side and I don’t think he knew how to support me or what to look out for. Then he went through abit of a breakdown and became addicted to some stuff and the relationship just died.

My second, which I had 10 years later I was very obsessed with the baby, I really enjoyed motherhood, but I did completely ignore my OH. I wasn’t romantically interested. No interest in sex. But had a great time enjoying my mat leave and spent time with my family for extra support.

In both scenarios, I did ignore my OH. We accepted that we wouldn’t be intimate, but I didn’t realise how long it took before I became more romantically interested.

Yes, childbirth affects the woman the most in terms of the emotional and physical toll. However, I have had a moment where I have felt very sorry for the partner, because our lives have drastically changed, and they sort of sit on the sidelines until we get better.

What do you think?

I think that childbirth/looking after a baby is very stressful. Many situations in life are very stressful. If you both have good coping mechanisms for stress, practise good communication with your partner even when you are feeling less enthusiastic about them, and don't take out your feelings on other people, you and your partner have a much better chance of sailing through (PND aside).

So I would suggest that working on these things before the baby is born would be better.

Not postpartum because they aren't postpartum- that means a woman who has recently given birth. They also don't get post natal depression because that's also something only mums can get. Whether they need support with the change in their life circumstances is a different question- they don't need it from their postpartum partners anyway!

I almost died in childbirth as my husband watched. He then had to take care of our newborn as I was in ICU for a period of time. It was the worst thing that ever happened to us. In the hospital, some nurses cracked jokes about having never seen a dad alone on the maternity ward before, others just ignored him. Some were absolutely fantastic support.
Once we were home, no one (midwife/health visitors) asked him how he was, even after we talked about what happened. And it was then that I realised they just follow a script. They weren't actually listening to a word we said once they'd ticked the relevant boxes.

So, yes, I do believe some fathers need support after their babies are born.

Not sure. My viewpoint is probably clouded by domestic abuse. I always remember when DC2 was about a week old, exDP called me a "wet blanket" because he wanted to drive us all to a shopping centre/mall and I said it was too much too soon. DC1 wouldn't have enjoyed it anyway - they were still under 2.

He was a narcissist. Obviously this is the type of thing a narcissist does, but perhaps if he had had to some 'training' on how to deal with the first few weeks after a baby's birth and what the mother is going through etc, he might have realized just how extremely ridiculous his suggestion was. But then again, he was a narcissist and therefore didn't want to be considerate.

They should get as much support as women get fuck all told to buck up what were you expecting things to be like of course babies cry were you expecting full conversation fresh out the womb sneers

But that won't happen because they are men

Woah. No one said any of that to me!

I think they do need support. I was a mess postpartum and my husband had to look after me, a baby and the house/pets while constantly having the "I don't know how to make you better" look helplessly plastered on his face. I felt awful for him. Then he had to leave us and go to work after four weeks, worry about us all day then come home to a crying wife basically throwing the baby at him. Awful.

I can't stand all this women have to suffer so fuck the husbands! Attitude. It's gross.

Idk. I feel like they need less “OMG you changed a nappy what a hero you’re so hands-on!!!!!” Maybe we need to get support for women right first as they’re closer to the centre of the circle, and men need to be trained to dump outside the circle more.

I think men need much more support on how to recognise and what to expect if their partners get post natal depression and/or other post birth issues. Whether it would do any good, god knows. I haven't got much faith in men generally, but it wouldn't do any harm.

Yes! I hate hearing ‘men can get PND too!’ No they bloody well cannot, it is a specific type of depression exclusively for women who have recently given birth. They may get depression yes, but it is certainly not PND.

As for support, as pp say they could probably use more in terms of how they spot PND or other issues with their partner and how they can get her help. Support just in terms of how hard it is with baby and life changes etc, not so much, it’s just a fact of life they have to work through the same as women who generally get zero support for the same thing because just finding the life change difficult is not in itself a MH issue.

A male friend of DH recently had to deal with his partner dealing with post natal psychosis which was awful for him of course and he got help from his GP as was appropriate. The help from HV and the post natal MH team was quite rightly focused on the mother.

To be honest I agree with this. Women get fuck all support and we really could use some when we've just had a baby. There should be a class for some men to teach them that of course a woman is going to be far more focused on their newborn baby than them and that's the way it should be. And that acting like a petulant twat because she isn't up for sex straight away isn't going to change that fact.

As a PP said, men don't need postpartum support because they are never postpartum. Do they need training/upport on how to support their partner when she is post partum, yes that might be helpful.

Do they need support with the changes that come with having a baby in your life and the effects that may have on relationships? Possibly, but largely I think in terms of men gaining greater understanding of for example, PND, birth injuries, breast feeding, so that they can offer support or know here to seek assitance.

What kind of support OP?
They have access to counselling services and GPs as much as anyone else does.
I mean I didn’t get extra support- nor did my husband- when our first was stillborn at full term and I almost died. There was SANDS or Facebook groups or bereavement counselling we could seek out ourselves.
Sane when we had our second - this time severely disabled DD. I mean the same in that there wasn’t support of any kind for us - there were appointments for DD to have treatment and dietician input but nothing other than you’d expect.
If you mean emotionally then.. that’s between the couple and their friends or family surely?
Maybe some men and some women need support emotionally from partners or family but is that what you meant?
Surely in most circumstances the woman needs to physically heal and recuperate while the child’s father doesn’t need that (even if he can or does do night feeds)…?

I dunno, unless it's a particularly traumatic birth, or a partner experiencing post natal depression or psychosis i really don't think it takes that much of a toll on men 🤷‍♀️. My husband found his two weeks off with a new born relaxing. His sleep was barely disturbed as I was breast feeding, and he just spent two weeks lay on a sofa cuddling a baby. Apart from me having a sore vagina and feeling tired I was in a pretty good place mentally, so he didn't really have much stress, I think i would have felt pretty wound up if people tried checking in on his well being as he was having a lovely time. Tbh I think men should have more education on what women go through, I really don't think they need to be any specific paternity mental health support, if they are struggling it should just be covered under generic mental health services.

I can't have any sympathy though for men going a little while without sex or as much attention. That's just something they need to get over, not get specialist support for.

Well the NHS says fathers are diagnosed with post natal depression. Post natal just means after birth. If they are depressed following the birth of their baby then that's what it is. It's not called post partum depression.

From NHS "Postnatal depression is a type of depression that many parents experience after having a baby.
It's a common problem, affecting more than 1 in every 10 women within a year of giving birth. It can also affect fathers and partners."

I think the NHS are more of an authority on who can and can't have PND than you.

Really?? The NHS used to say that puberty blockers were safe and reversible until very recently. Post natal means after giving birth - whatever depression a man may experience after becoming a father is NOT postnatal depression because they didn't give birth. Postnatal depression is caused by a combination of biological, psychological, and social factors. It’s a reaction to the major physical, hormonal, and emotional changes that follow childbirth.
Depression experienced by men is reactive depression. They are different conditions and need different approaches.

When a mother gives all her attention to a newborn baby, whether or not she’s well and / or having a good time, it’s not a personal little hobby but what the baby demands because it needs it. This is what babies do and how they develop - they extract constant physical and emotional attention in order to make a start on life: very frequent milk, lots of soothing, physical closeness, emotional and social input. If fathers don't like how little attention they get when the mother is occupied with all that, it’s not an “awww” situation as if she’d gone off with her friends. Through choice. His job also is to be a parent now and that means, at first, supporting the mother and accepting that the baby actually needs all this. It might be hard but it just is harder being a parent than pleasing yourself and it isn’t his wife who made it hard. Nature made it hard. It’s not a thing she has done to him, it’s a thing nature did to them both.

I guess I meant post natal support.

Im so sorry to anyone that didn’t get any support at all. I know that the NHS have a long way to go with maternity services. I’ve been lucky enough to have a decent experience with the NHS - but only because I was high risk for different reasons and was closely monitored- so although nothing can prepare you for parenthood, I had services I could use - my midwife was around a few weeks after - but when I needed therapy etc I was able to access it pretty quickly. I guess I wondered if men should also be able to tap into post birth support - even if it was just to share how they are feeling.

Maybe I mean emotional support. I have heard from friends that have had traumatic births that their husbands/partners have admitted to the trauma years (usually decades) later. One friend couldn’t understand why her partner kept objecting to them having more babies, after their 3rd was in school, he admitted that the birth of their first (where she nearly died) was so traumatic he didn’t want her to keep putting herself through a pregnancy. If effected their relationship as she thought he didnt want a family.

As someone else said, maybe having more education on what a woman might go through. I was lucky that my partner got on with it. He cooked, cleaned, washed bottles, we figured it out together, but I do wonder if there are unique experiences for dads - maybe it’s more of a self organised dads group. The same way there are more self organised men’s mental health groups.

But now that I’m coming out of the postnatal fog (baby is nearly 2) I’ve personally been abit dismissive of my partners needs - it doesn’t seem like it has affected him. I don’t know. But if he couldn’t come to me or family because he is “being the strong one” I’d like to imagine he had somewhere he could tap into support.

Maybe when women who actually have the baby get decent support we can think about men.

One of the things I say to pregnant friends who ask is that even if they don’t feel they need the birth debrief they should check if their DH would like it. I didn’t realise how traumatised DH by the birth of DS1 (24 hour labour, they were trying to get a line in me for a crash section under GA when the Dr hauled him out) was until I was pregnant with DS2 and he started muttering about paying for additional support during the birth and would private be better. I’d been fine post birth (discharged 12 hours later with a healthy DS1 to the astonishment of the ward staff) so I’d moved on without much thought despite the midwife suggesting a debrief. He hadn’t been. He’d thought he was going to lose us both and was traumatised.

I actually think if women had better support it would help men too.

I had a lovely time postpartum with my first - good vaginal birth and quick recovery - really close to my baby and DH. Our relationship was really good, we were super close and loved up, regular sex etc.

With my second I had a traumatic birth that impacted me a lot (and no support). Me and DH's relationship was way worse and way more affected. He didn't have PTSD from the birth like I did, but it affected him way more as well because I was unhappy/not myself

And yet, medical professionals have defined the meaning of post natal depression as including fathers so it doesn't really matter if you agree with them. They are going to diagnose it anyway.

Post natal doesn't mean after childbirth. That's what postpartum means. Post natal refers to the first six weeks of a babies life and can be used for topics that include the baby and the father. Postpartum refers to the period of recovery from childbirth and is specific to the mother.

Medical Definition

postnatal. adjective. post·na·tal (ˈ)pōst-ˈnāt-ᵊl. : occurring or being after birth. specifically : of or relating to an infant immediately after birth.

What men need is education.

Not just a few NCT classes mostly focussed on other things.

They need education delivered consistently throughout school, as a compulsory part of PSHE, about the realities of what it is like to give birth and what the postpartum period can be like.

Men need to understand the biological realities their female partners may experience. They need to understand how much physical strain pregnancy and labour put on the body. They need to read through the lists of posssible complications and possible lasting health issues. They need to know that a c section is major surgery. They need to know about lochia, and mastitis, and postpartum incontinence, and all the other nasty fluid-related things society has decided are far too yucky to talk about.

What men also need is a society that expects them to step up and makes them feel this is their responsibility. Not endless macho posturing about how quickly they got their wives to have sex again, or learned helplessness about how they just so happen to be not as good as their wives at changing nappies, or they just struggle to hear the baby cry at night, or they're just not as good with broken sleep as women are.

I do believe men can be emotionally traumatised by what they witness during a bad labour or a frightening time with a newborn, obviously - just as you might be traumatised if you saw your partner in a car accident that led to frightening surgery. And of course I understand that sleep deprivation is an absolute killer and men can find it incredibly rough too. Yes, it would be great if men got support with those things, and yes, I think it would be very good for men and women if there were more acceptance that men might need someone to talk to.

What must not happen, though, is for men's support system to be ... yet more unpaid women's work. And that seems to me to be what happens. It's eight years ago, and I am still frothing about a NHS leaflet I read on men's mental health postpartum, which included an anecdote about a wonderful, brave man who reached out and talked to his male friend about his struggles ... and the male friend sent his wife over to make him a cup of tea, and all was well in the world.

(NB, am the non-bio mum. Have done the 'dad' bit.)

(And while I am on a roll, I went and gave evidence in Parliament about this subject with a whole lot of male partners, and it is absolutely gobsmackingly obvious that much of the shambles that happens around the postpartum period is rooted in toxic masculinity and a culture of expecting women to minimise what is happening to their bodies and their mental health, and men to collude in that.)