Do men need postpartum support?

[theprincessthepea]

Influenced by another thread which has made me reflect on how having a baby has affected my relationship, it has made me wonder if men need some level of support postpartum. Yes, we drag them along to antenatal classes, we tell them how they can support us, we tell them to suck it up because the women will need them, we remind them that they can take paternity leave and that they should fight for it etc etc

But on reflection, I’ve had two children.

My first I had very bad postnatal depression, the relationship did not survive three years in. Which led to coparenting. We probably would have broken up with or without the baby but there was a struggle on my side and I don’t think he knew how to support me or what to look out for. Then he went through abit of a breakdown and became addicted to some stuff and the relationship just died.

My second, which I had 10 years later I was very obsessed with the baby, I really enjoyed motherhood, but I did completely ignore my OH. I wasn’t romantically interested. No interest in sex. But had a great time enjoying my mat leave and spent time with my family for extra support.

In both scenarios, I did ignore my OH. We accepted that we wouldn’t be intimate, but I didn’t realise how long it took before I became more romantically interested.

Yes, childbirth affects the woman the most in terms of the emotional and physical toll. However, I have had a moment where I have felt very sorry for the partner, because our lives have drastically changed, and they sort of sit on the sidelines until we get better.

What do you think?

Should we not get women sorted first before we worry about the poor men?

I was an absolute mess physically and mentally after DD was born. My DH had to care for me and navigate how to be a full on default parent very quickly. Fortunately he had extended paternity leave but it has changed our relationship as I’ve been left with a neurological condition post partum. Our HV was very good as were a couple of midwives who came to see us and kept us on an enhanced support pathway but that all disappeared once DD turned 1 (for me and also by proxy DH). We’re muddling through and hopefully doing an OK job at raising our DD. DH attends Andy’s man’s club sporadically depending on if I’m ‘well’ and when he feels he needs support / safe space to vent without judgement.

Or we can acknowledge both.

Having a baby is a massive life change. And a lot of the time I think that even the most prepared and willing new father feels at a loss, and on the edge of things. I've seen it in my friends and relatives, and if I'm honest I was a bit like it with my husband. They want to help, but don't do whatever it is 'the right way' so feel that they're failing. Often the baby doesn't settle with dad and only wants mum, so again, the dad feels he's failed, and is marginalised.

Just as with mothers, you can go to all the NCT classes and read all the books, but it's still scary and you still feel at a loss.
So I don't think men should be ignored, and if they're struggling, they should have access to somewhere/someone where they can unload.

It was years after the traumatic birth of our first, before I realised how awful it had been for my DH to watch it all and feel so helpless. But after my brother in law had become a father, I heard them talking together, and my DH telling him that he had feared that he was losing me and the baby, and it was the most terrified he'd ever been. I doubt that anyone had ever asked him if he was okay.

I think it has to be both at once, not because I am thinking 'poor men,' but because a big part of the problem is that, for many women, their primary support system after birth is a man, and at the moment, that is not a system that is working. I know men who've tried bloody hard to say that something is badly wrong and who've been made to feel they are being overly dramatic and not masculine enough, because they are worried about their female partners. Or men try to talk about what's happened and there's a locker-room atmosphere of 'ho ho, how funny, women stuff, but ugh, don't talk about the icky bits!'

I know someone who was literally told, by the doctor who'd done his wife's c-section, that he should never tell her how bad it was because she would be traumatised. So she was terrified because she had flashbacks of memory of nearly dying, and no one was telling her what was true and what wasn't. And he felt as if he would be hurting her if he told her what had happened.

That sort of utter bullshit could be completely avoided if we stopped pretending childbirth is a secret woman issue no one should discuss openly.

In some circumstances, yes. Dh and I were both a mess after our youngest was born. Both ds and I had sepsis and dh was traumatised by what he had seen during the birth. He told me afterwards that he just kept thinking about how he was going to tell our other children that both me and the baby had died. Dh was sacked for taking too much time off work afterwards and 11 years later we are both still on anti depressants. Ds has what seems to be permanent disabilities, partly due to his birth and the aftermath.

I think the problem is many men have their partners be their only sole source of emotional support. They cannot be vulnerable with their friends or family like women can. So when women can’t provide that as they’ve just had a baby and they need to prioritize baby and be looked after, the men have no one else to turn to so can get withdrawn or upset or angry etc.

You know after going through all of these messages, and researching online what is available for fathers of newborns in dealing with the mental adjustments in being responsible for another human being, it was rather sad that the only things that were available was a program called TheDadPad by the NHS which offered a silicone sleep pad and a 38 page booklet that was washable, and nothing that had been introduced since 2019. No one considers the fact that everyone is trying to support the new mother and baby, and all of these resources are focused on them but nothing for him and his mental health. What about the pressure he faces of being the sole breadwinner, trying to help make sure that everything is working as well as can be expected by working outside the home and then coming home to help out as much as possible (and those husbands who do try but aren't trained how to). What's sadly lacking is that not everyone is trained to be proper parents, especially men. Until that happens, things are never going to change.

And yet here I am in a free country with the opinion that it is a load of bullshit so there you go

*edited to add that the NHS also believe that men can give birth and breastfeed so forgive me if I don’t believe everything they say

Perhaps more time and resources should be spent on telling couples just how truly awful births and the post natal period are before they become parents.

I see this is more ideological than fan factual based for you. Nothing further to discuss then.

I agree. We really need to sort support for women first. A part of me believes that part of that support is educating men properly. As many have said.

Ive noticed that some cultures (my own included) will leave men out, and so all things related to birth falls on the woman and grandma etc. I guess it’s going back to “men wait outside the birthing room” phenomenon. I do think ultimately this can enable this attitude that post birth is a woman’s job and they are not needed and they are useless. I’ve read about many couples having conversations about 50/50 split when it comes to the house and children as it’s not a given. It’s as if we have to re educate ourselves.

Surley having a supportive partner makes post birth easier for the woman?

I’ve also seen so many posts lately on MN of pregnant women whose partners have left them. Whilst I’m sure having post natal support might not make a huge difference, but I wonder why we as a society have made it so easy for men to leave their families - with barely any shame or major consequences. How can you leave a woman when she is putting herself through a pretty scary and life changing time - to have your baby. Are there still men out there that think pregnancy is easy? That their wives should be perfect whilst pregnant?

Anyways my reasoning for this question did have women in mind.

I agree with everyone saying make sure women get support first then think about men.

A man’s role after his partner has a baby is mainly to support the Mum anyway, so I slightly raise an eyebrow about support for the support.

That all said, I think the answer lies with men to support each other. If men’s friends made time for them to have a chat without having to he drinking or playing a sport that takes many hours that would be a help. Normalise men going for coffee together I think!

I mean the reason going for tea/ coffee to catch up is seen as a women’s activity is probably the fact it’s quick and doesn’t take up too much time!

Men absolutely can a do suffer depression on becoming a parent. The problem is people dismiss it.

Of course the support needs support. You can't pour from an empty cup! That's like saying mums job is to support the children, why would she need support from her husband when she's the support person? Everyone rightly calls out that bullshit.

What I observed when my daughter was born was that my husband looked after me for 9 months, and my horse because I struggled while pregnant despite knowing nothing about horses, then he watched me go through surgery, looked after me and baby afterwards and horse until I recovered enough to do it myself, watched me sob uncontrollably while trying and failing to breastfeed, wringing his hands and looking worried to death saying I don't know how to help with this I want to alleviate your suffering and I can't, he woke up and changed baby every time she woke up at night for a feed, then after a few weeks had to leave his wife and newborn to go to work for hours on little sleep and missed us like hell worrying the whole time he was gone. And nobody gave a shit. Not one person asked him how he was feeling, how he was coping. The midwives totally ignored him they were only interested in me. He was completely ignored by everyone while going through the most major thing in his life and pouring from an empty cup for me and our daughter. He was carrying the world slon his shoulders and no one gave a fuck. And the prevailing attitude here in he should just put up and shut up and why should anyone care. It's horrible.

I think something akin to antenatal classes but for men/ partners (before birth of child) ran either evening or weekend when most men/ partners could have a chance of attending would be great.

Something that focuses much more on what a partner can do to support post natal. What the post natal period will realistically be like. The fact that there is a huge hormone crash and how to deal with that. How to assist with wound care and that it is more than likely your partner will have stitches somewhere. What to look out for regarding maternal mental health and what services to reach out to. What they can do to support the new mother, they may not be able to feed if mum is breast feeding but they can do other things. That the last thing the new mother wants to do (possibly for a long time) is have sex of any kind. Setting realistic expectations around sex and intimacy, I have so many friends whose husbands literally counted down the days to the 6 week check when their partner would be "cleared" to have sex again. One particularly monstrous man in the hospital when I had DD last month, actually asked the midwife and then the consultant (when he didn't like the answer the midwife gave him - which was absolutely not) if his wife would be able to have sex with him when she was discharged (said woman in hospital bed opposite me had had a traumatic birth, had lots of stitches, was suffering from blood loss and was in obvious pain with her stitches and on lots of pain relief and under lots of monitoring from the Drs and midwives). How that man did not end up castrated by anyone in the ward or indeed the midwives is a miracle. Listening to him drone on the phone for an hour complaining about how his sexual needs are not been met was most infuriating, I'm pretty sure had I not been bed bound post C-section I would have castrated him myself, preferably the same way they castrate sheep. I seriously hope that the woman has been marked as possibly not safe at home and is been checked on because her "DH" only cared about his dick.

How to manage relatives and relatives visiting expectations. That managing relative expectations should be their job. No the newly post partum mother does not want your mum, dad, 3 aunts, mums neighbour, half of the bloody knitting group your mum attends on a Thursday afternoon, uncle Gerry who we only see at Christmas turning up at the hospital or the next day. Same with social media, the partner needs to manage expectations around social media posts and ensuring that everyone the mother wants to be are informed of the babies birth before some relative plasters it all over bragbook.

A lot of men do benefit from the obvious spelling out for them. So they directly need telling that they should be doing the lions share of the housework, stopping on top of washing bottles/ pump parts ect (if appropriate). That they should be taking on the lions share of looking after any older children. That the house needs to be kept tidy for visitors. They should be doing the cooking. That it is NOT 2 weeks off where you binge watch the football and go out with your mates, nor is it prime time to start redecorating the house or taking on huge garden projects.

I think men should get advice about how their partner might get PND and what to do.
I also think they should get advice about how to help a partner during labour etc.
It really isn’t the same for men though is it?
They don't have to suffer pregnancy and labour the same as women do.
I also think fathers need to step up and take responsibility.
One recent example of them not doing:
A manager I know had a request for someone to take 6 weeks off over the summer school holidays. This isn’t allowed. Anyway they spoke to the entire team and all the men said it was fine, they did not want any annual leave at all during the 6 weeks school holidays. The team is predominantly male, and the majority of those asked have school aged children.
I queried the fact that not one single father had any intent of spending time with their own child during the school holidays! The manager said no, that’s correct. He then said, well I suppose they just leave it up to their wives and girlfriends!
How shocking is that?
That is not the behaviour of a caring father at all.
Compare this to mothers and I know from experience that 100% of the mothers I have worked with all want time off during school holidays.
Therefore the only conclusion I can find is that the majority of men just do not care enough.
Let’s be reminded that a man is far more likely to sod off and leave an ill wife than the other way round.
So, yes I think men should be told about PND and told how to step up, but I think deep down they don’t want to help a lot of the time.

Yes! Men are also affected by childbirth in general…

https://www.nct.org.uk/information/baby-toddler/caring-for-your-baby-or-toddler/science-behind-dads#:~:text=being%20a%20dad.-,Hormones,(Fleming%20et%20al%202002).

on top of that, they may have seen their significant other go through a serious situation and had all that fear and worry and not knowing what to do but also had to look after us and being men, not had anyone to talk to.

it can be an awful time and both mum and dad need support but in different ways. My DP thought I was dying and was terrified and then he had to do almost everything for us after. He did a great job and never got the praise he deserved. It was only after he looked after himself.

helping the dad shouldn’t take anything away from the mum. We all need support.

I think something akin to antenatal classes but for men/ partners (before birth of child) ran either evening or weekend when most men/ partners could have a chance of attending would be great.

Frankly, though, this is too late. If you're already expecting a baby, it is too late.

I know plenty of first-time mothers do not realise how all-consuming it is going to be, but it's just not something that seems to be discussed by men or amongst men. Even men I know who have lots of sisters or female friends or male friends who've had babies, seem not to have these conversations.

This is a great post and absolutely spot on! Off to Google how sheep are castrated…

I'm thinking about the sort of educational drive that we had in the 90s about safe sex. I know there were issues with that - I definitely think a lot of my generation got the idea that getting pregnant was virtually certain whenever you had sex, and of course in the 90s it was all very heteronormative. But the result was that there's a whole generation of us who had hammered into us that unprotected sex carried risks and it was something we definitely needed to think about and plan for.

You could do exactly the same with pregnancy. Sure, some people will never need to put the knowledge into practice, but many will.

They need training. Proper classes that they attend for a few months to teach them how to be supportive husbands and effective fathers. It’s not natural for them so they need to be taught. I’m in my 50’s and I don’t have one friend left who is still married and most of their issues were regarding parenting and their husbands being crap.

Men who have dealt with this should set probably up a support group or volunteer organisation to help with this

I think that, NHS aside, all of the charities and support groups have been set up by women for women. It is possible for men to set up their own groups and charities for anything they need but they haven't. None of them seem particularly inclined to in the near future either. So no, I don't feel that it is the responsibility of women to get involved when men are disinclined to do it for themselves.