Do men need postpartum support?

[theprincessthepea]

Influenced by another thread which has made me reflect on how having a baby has affected my relationship, it has made me wonder if men need some level of support postpartum. Yes, we drag them along to antenatal classes, we tell them how they can support us, we tell them to suck it up because the women will need them, we remind them that they can take paternity leave and that they should fight for it etc etc

But on reflection, I’ve had two children.

My first I had very bad postnatal depression, the relationship did not survive three years in. Which led to coparenting. We probably would have broken up with or without the baby but there was a struggle on my side and I don’t think he knew how to support me or what to look out for. Then he went through abit of a breakdown and became addicted to some stuff and the relationship just died.

My second, which I had 10 years later I was very obsessed with the baby, I really enjoyed motherhood, but I did completely ignore my OH. I wasn’t romantically interested. No interest in sex. But had a great time enjoying my mat leave and spent time with my family for extra support.

In both scenarios, I did ignore my OH. We accepted that we wouldn’t be intimate, but I didn’t realise how long it took before I became more romantically interested.

Yes, childbirth affects the woman the most in terms of the emotional and physical toll. However, I have had a moment where I have felt very sorry for the partner, because our lives have drastically changed, and they sort of sit on the sidelines until we get better.

What do you think?

There are quite a lot of men's groups set up by and for men.

Strong agree.

But more is needed. It can't just be a last-ditch 'let's do some classes during your wife's pregnancy and after the baby is more'. It needs to be a whole structural change. (And yes, I think men need to lead this as well.)

I think there should be paternity support on offer. We hear about the crap fathers and husbands a lot but there are also good ones out there who's life does change as they take on an equal share of parenting, sometimes more than equal and sometimes support wives through PND. We know caring takes a toll on women and they need support, the men who take on caring and supportive roles also need support.

No. They just need to grow the fuck up and take some responsibility for themselves and the family they have jointly created. If that means accessing existing modalities of support then that’s what they should do, instead of being an incompetent, emotionally stunted, selfish prick.

This is why we all struggle.

I have said repeatedly that men 1) need to do this work and 2) are, in some cases, doing it.

And you just want to repeat BUT THE MEN MUST DO THE WORK! Even though people are agreeing with you, you think it's more important to keep pretending they are disagreeing, so you can repeat yourself. And it isn't.

It's appalling isn't it? It's the kind of disdain on this thread for men who are also going through a huge life change, that gives Mumsnet its reputation for man hating.

I'm sick of reading 'when women get what they need we'll think about men' like is impossible to do two things at once. And the total mockery of men actually feeling something and needing support of their own.

Men who've witnessed a traumatic birth, stepped up in every way they can (when they might actually feel lost and helpless at times) and done everything that can be asked of them, are just being called pathetic.

Yes there are some crummy new fathers, yes there's a minority who walk away. But for goodness sake, let's not totally write dads off as being an irrelevance and whose emotions are of no account

The sheer number of responses on here and other threads saying that men cannot get PND, when there is actual peer-reviewed evidence to the contrary, says everything.

The default view that men are of no importance is absolutely staggering, both within the healthcare community and in the public at large.

I didn’t say that though - I said that men should support other men.

They shouldn’t be getting state funded support before women do though.

A man’s role after his partner has a baby is mainly to support the Mum anyway, so I slightly raise an eyebrow about support for the support

Makes it sound like you think men don't need support to me.

Happens to loads of us unfortunately no pain relief after csection expected to get up and get on with it i was literally attached to my bed via a drip i was told off for not getting my baby from the bottom of the bed I couldn't physically reach her I was catheterised drip still numb from the epidural and they said we cant coddle you, you will need to look after YOUR BABY you know my catheter leaked in my bed it was pulled before I even got my feeling back and sat in a chair with numb legs and a drip stand and expected to crack on they then asked me to move back into the pissy bed and I refused it was lucky I had only had a retained placenta operation not a full c-section because they were really in pain

Eventually a senior came in read my notes and said why has she been moved her anesthesia went wrong she is going to get a headache now (i really really did get a headache I was told I could have A paracetamol if I felt I needed it)

Next baby I took my own pain killers in

Being pedantic here, but post natal only means “after birth”
There is no ‘giving’ in there. It is not exclusive to mothers.

Just like the NHS used to say puberty blockers were safe, they used to say that post natal depression only affected mothers.

Things are more up to date now.

I think training men on how to better support their partners will do wonders for women. In other words, it’s like saying shouldn’t we worry about fixing the car before finding a mechanic?

Not even close. Women die if proper care isn’t implemented. You can have the most attentive, involved partner. Medical care and support is lacking.

So no. Fixing men is not top of the list as you are suggesting.

So if you want to talk about the loss of life due to post natal depression. Women and men lose their lives if proper care isn’t implemented. In both cases, some kill their children & partner before killing themselves. Fathers do it more often than mothers. So I do think it is to the benefit of mothers that the fathers be supported as well.

Edit: There is no reason to have a scarcity mindset. Supporting men isn’t going to take away from supporting women. In fact, it will enhance and improve support for women. Similar to how carers get support which in turn means the disabled/elderly people get better care.

did they say it was top of the list or are you getting offended on some faux feminist principle that clearly misses the point?

Thank you. I didn’t imply there was any kind of list or queue for support.

See the original posters mechanic/car comparison. It exactly says that. Let me know how you read it. Was I wrong? Happy to wait for your take.

I remember having to pick my jaw up off the floor when a friend told me her partner was in therapy for PND.

I queried PND and she said "yes he's been depressed since I've been post natal" - I mean what the actual fuck. I did of course tell her he couldn't have actual PND but apparently his therapist (and mother!!) had diagnosed him.

The relationship didn't survive (oddly he got "PND" after their second baby too but by that point my poor friend had began to see he was a selfish and quite nasty man who didn't like her attention being diverted from him)

I certainly didn’t read it that way. More along the lines that as a family unit, you need both and can’t have one without the other. Not that the man is the mechanic, fixer of everything and comes first.

I'm sure if they did, they are quite capable of arranging it for themselves. This is, after all, the sex that is typically found leading society and doing all the Big Jobs throughout the world. I'd be very surprised if between them they lacked the capacity to identify a problem and galvanise thenselves to ensure it was addressed. Which leaves me to conclude, it's either not a problem, or it's a problem men prefer to sit around and look sad about until women turn their attention away from their own issues to solve for them.

How many women die in childbirth?

Is there an issue with area and ethnicity?

Women having medical issues which are not picked up or listened to?

I mean we could focus on men first I guess.

Of course you can have one without the other. In fact our care should ensure those without a unit do not fall behind.

My comment doesn’t mention a list at all. It doesn’t say that. Your take isn’t what I intended, I don’t see how you inferred a list.