WIBTA if I refuse to cater for my ‘vegan’ MIL?

[Veganornotvegan]

My MIL recently announced that she is vegan. Great. Love that for her.

This obviously came with a request that whenever we cater for her (think Sunday lunch, dinner parties, events, etc.) we cater for her as a vegan. All good so far.

However, she says she’s vegan, but she’s not. Two recent examples when we’ve been out for dinner, she ordered a vegan chilli, but with a side of dairy sour cream (“to make it less spicy”), or a vegan roast dinner, with a side of normal Yorkshire puddings (because “there’s no vegan alternative”).

We are hosting a typical 3 / (4 with cheese course) course Christmas dinner for 14 adults and 4 children, no one else has any dietary restrictions or requirements, and my MIL wants me to make a separate vegan version of everything just for her (no duck fat potatoes, no honey roast parsnips, no meat dripping gravy, etc). WIBTA if I said no / she needs to bring her own?

If she’s cooking for 14 she may not have room in the oven for ine extra tray?

But it's all somebody deliberately trying to impose their restrictions on other people - unless it all just happens to be vegan without anybody realising, which a large proportion of food is not.

What about if somebody gladly ate all of that, but decided that adding some diced bacon and dairy cream would make it even better? Would that not then potentially make the people who would only eat the foods in the first list and not countenance trying the additions narrow minded?

I have no issues whatsoever with people who choose/require a diet for themselves and also respect the choices/needs of others; but those who harangue and criticise others for making different choices - whether that be vegans criticising omnivores for eating meat or omnivores criticising vegans for not eating meat or whatever - are tedious in the extreme.

However the hypocrites who openly criticise others for not making the dietary choices that they themselves claim but obviously do not adhere to either are the worst of the lot.

It simply doesn't wash for me if somebody tells others that they obviously hate animals and are bad people if they eat meat; but then when they eat meat or another animal product, then try to gaslight with "Well, at least I'm trying - nobody is perfect; you're all big judgmental meanies".

I cook for family who are vegans. I put a lot of effort into it and generally make a nut roast or similar from scratch, but they still accept that there will be some things on the table that they can’t eat.

You can make some clever swaps, eg I think maple syrup on the roast parsnips is nicer than honey (top tip from Nigella) and I’ve had a lot of success roasting the potatoes in olive oil rather than duck fat (though given your MIL seems fairly flexible I might just do them in duck fat in your case, or if you have an air fryer you could do some for her in that). I do use butter in mash (I mash the carrots rather than roast due to oven space) so they can’t eat that but I did do some sprouts for them with olive oil while the rest of us had butter. They can’t eat the gravy and have to do without because I don’t have the brain space for two lots of gravy and I don’t like vegan gravy. I generally make puddings from scratch because I love baking, but I buy in vegan ones. You could also buy in a nut roast and vegan pigs in blankets.

Basically, with some clever swaps and making use of pre-made stuff it can be done with only a little bit more effort.

You could use Maple Syrup instead of honey, I think it tastes nicer, try it.

@EdithStourton Most people buy honey from supermarkets though so the majority of honey consumed comes from large-scale commercial operations as previously described. Just purchasing and consuming honey perpetuates the idea that animals are commodities and they exist for our purpose hence why vegans don’t buy honey, regardless of what methods may be used.

I do always cater for everyone but I think this feels much easier if people are consistent in what they require to eat. It isn’t that unusual to go to the extra effort of providing additional dishes only for people to want to have a bit of everything. Including confirmed carnivores happily tucking into vegetarian and vegan dishes. It is not unnatural when presented with a delicious looking feast that some will decide to put their dietary preferences aside for the occasion. I suspect this may be your MIL. I voted YANBU as she has specifically requested a fully vegan meal, at what will be a very busy time in the kitchen, with a lot of juggling with oven space and she might not stick to it herself.

Therefore, in her particular case I would go for a good quality ready made vegan roast dinner and microwave vegetables with vegan gravy. That way if she did choose to stray I wouldn’t feel put out at all the extra effort that I had made, apparently for nothing. Basically though, I just try to serve good food and let go of all expectations as to who will eat what!

I (and my DH/DS) are veggie. We had the problem last year the other way around- one family member said they MUST have meat on Xmas day and pulled a face at the suggestion of my vegan wellington, so I bought (and somehow cooked with limited oven space) a very small chicken and some meaty pigs in blankets. But when the wellington came out, they saw it looked nice and ate that with just a little bit of chicken and declared it delicious. So this year everyone will be having wellington 😆

In your shoes, I’d cook for MIL what I could fit on one smallish baking tray so that you know exactly how much oven space you will lose from the start. Some kind of one-person portion of nut roast bought from a shop, a few shop-bought roast potatoes/parsnips/whatever you can find that’s ready made and a couple of balls of that Paxo onion stuffing that you mix with hot water. And then a separate jug of vegan gravy made from powder. I’d be more than happy with that if I was a guest at someone else’s house. You could also do one of those microwaveable pouches of mixed veg from M&S or similar. Mash is simple, we have a couple of vegans in the family and I cook enough potatoes for everyone, scoop some out for the vegans and mash it with vegan spread/non-dairy milk and then do the rest with milk and butter as usual.

I like PP’s post about not being the vegan police. In your shoes, I’d provide something for her along the lines of what I suggested. If she ends up eating the non-vegan stuff, then I might quietly say to her in future ‘look, no judgement from me, but for the future are you happy to flex your veganism a bit on special occasions like you did today?’ The vegan/veggie main I would always provide because there’s a big difference between eating a vegetable that contains a bit of butter/animal fat and a big chunk of meat, but it IS annoying if you’re providing a whole different menu and it turns out it’s not needed.

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head there with your comment about it being annoying doing a whole extra menu if it’s not actually needed. Which I suspect it may not be (outside of replacing the meat with nut roast / mushroom wellington) as I’ve seen her flex her veganism in other instances (and she’s spent the past ten years telling me how much she loves my duck fat roasties and beef dripping gravy!)

I just ask her outright what she’s hoping for, and explain I’ll accommodate whatever she asks for. Then we can see on the day what she’s hoping eats, but I certainly don’t want to give her the impression she’s not welcome or valued as much as the other guests. (But I won’t be changing the menu for the other guests to suit her, I’ll make her her own separate version of the dinner).

@Veganornotvegan it is so annoying when you go to all that extra effort for no reason - slightly different but my MIL & SIL don’t eat gluten so I spend ages making GF food and spending loads of extra money accommodating them, and then they just competitively under eat and leave all of it anyway. Grrr.

You really don’t need to pour meat juices over all the naturally vegan or vegetarian food.

It’s so tedious to insist on adding duck fat to potatoes, they’re nice without it. Or bacon in sprouts, just don’t.

Your guests will be fine with the main dishes being meaty and the vegetables not.

Before Christmas I’d make her some roast potatoes in vegetable oil and then freeze them. Then on Christmas Day, heat them through in the oven. They will be great.

For parsnips and carrots why not switch to maple syrup? We use that (not vegan) because we prefer the taste.

I would throw in a ready made nut roast and use vegan gravy granules so it’s a bit of a faff on the day but much less than it could be.

She is your guest so I suggest a little bit of effort is worth it.

It’s the op’s lunch, produce, time and effort, let her decide on what to add.

Yeh I do get that. Some are made from a bunch of oils although today we picked one up that's made from cashews. Not tried it yet but it has good reviews online. On the flip side, giving a vegan a bit of butter in the mash can give them an upset tummy. My husband always knows when he's accidentally eaten a bit of dairy as it doesn't agree with him at all.

Isn't that lactose intolerance rather than just vegan?

It was actually really good! Everyone ate it, meat eaters included. My husband isn't the biggest dessert fan and often the options are always a brownie which he doesn't like so I wanted to make him something old school. This is the recipe if you're curious - www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/vegan-trifle

I guess technically because he's not had dairy for so long but he always managed dairy fine when he ate meat and dairy on a regular basis. My MIL stopped eating gluten and now that's made her intolerant too!

If you don’t eat meat/dairy for a long time, it can upset your system even if you aren’t technically intolerant.

But even though she is finding it hard (well she isn't really trying is she, you'd not have the yorskhire pudding rather than have a non vegan one) she still thinks it's acceptable to tell others off for eating meat. Nope that is not right. I'd be spearing her hand with a fork if she tried to get a honey parsnip when i'd made a vegan one.

I would do a vegan main and provide 1 vegan potato option and 1 vegan veg option. E.g broccoli and roasties made with oil (my preferred method anyway!) Then do all the rest as normal, so other potato and veg options are not vegan e.g mash with butter, honey roast parsnips etc.
MIL then has a full meal that is vegan and she can choose to add more potato and veg options that are not vegan if she wants but can't complain you haven't catered to her.

No, but neither do I berate others for not following my rules. I go to the gym every morning before work, that is my rule.I don't expect others to and tell them off for not doing. That's what the MIL is doing. The most committed vegan I know - well actually the only one I know- never ever mentions his diet or that he's a vegan as it's the least interesting thing about him.

I wasn't the poster you were replying to.

Yes, this absolutely.

You don't NEED to add meat juices to vegetables; then again, unless they're actually genuinely allergic to meat and other animal products, nobody NEEDS to be vegan in the first place.

Unless somebody is a cannibal (or a 'humanitarian' as some people might say!), it's really controlling to try to coerce or dictate to another adult what they should or shouldn't eat.

Well, yes. That would indeed be an entirely reasonable position for both the host and the vegan guest to adopt.

But it seems from the OP that MIL wants her choice to be vegan to be treated like a disability, or rather, what she imagines a disability is like ("You can't discriminate against me! If you provide a full Christmas dinner you must provide me with a vegan version of everything, otherwise you are a eugenicist or or or, well, something!!").

That's ridiculous for many reasons, and the fact that she has apparently decided that her right to "Dinner with all the trimmings" trumps both OP's right to choose how she hosts (at OP's house), and the rights of the cow and chicken (whose milk and eggs went into the Yorkshires) not to be exploited for the benefit of humans† (at the pub/restaurant), shows just how performative MIL's flexi-veganism is. If you're flexi for yourself then be flexi for your hosts.

Frankly I would have been a lot less surprised if the story had been about a 17 year old rather than a woman in (presumably) her 50s or above.

† Carnivore here. Apologies to any vegans if I have misrepresented their position.

I'd better carry on eating everything then!

I've seen a lot of suggestions of 'posh veg sides from M&S'. No use at all - they're full of cream and butter at the best of times, and double down on it at Xmas. Value ranges from normal supermarkets are much more likely to be vegan.

I think if someone's not a strict vegan it's unreasonable to expect you to cater vegan. I have various dietary principles that shift a bit when someone else is feeding me because that's life and we all have to be a bit flexible.

All the people lecturing you about how it's not difficult to do a vegan menu/dishes; yes, that's true but Christmas dinner has a lot of components and is already stressful to coordinate, and oven space is often at a premium.

And the person saying if you can't be trusted about vegan-animal cross contamination, then you can't be trusted with raw meat: absolutely not! I prepare the meat, have a good clear down and then relax because I won't poison anyone if I stir the sprouts with a bacony spoon. I consciously 'cross contaminate' things that don't matter.