Migrants required to pass A Level Standard of English

[onceuponatimeinneverland]

www.gov.uk/government/news/migrants-will-be-required-to-pass-a-level-standard-of-english
Just heard this on the news. Is it me or is it totally mad? Especially when you look at the relatively poor standard of speaking, listening, reading and writing that exists already for those actually born in the UK rather than migrating in.

I'm presuming that applicants won't actually have to sit A Level English language as that would be even madder.

Or maybe its entirely sensible. I'm all for having a literal workforce.

What do other countries request I wonder (can't be fussed to actually look).

Yes I am BU - A Level standard English is the bare minimum
No you aren't BU - Its mad

I doubt many native Britons have A level standard English.

But why?

Calling it A Level standard is misleading. It isn't A Level English to a native English speaker. More like Frnech A Level to a native English speaker. It is B2 level, which most working migrants will already be capable of as it would be very difficult to manage a working day here otherwise. It is conversational level English.
Not an unreasonable requirement, but probably pointless regulation.

Years ago I worked as a cleaner at a doctors surgery and a man brought his wife for an interview. They were from Algeria and she didn't speak any English so he translated for me and the head receptionist and we were happy to take her on but he wanted to see where she would be working but the lady in charge said no because there were areas the general public couldn't go. It was a huge multi functional practice.
She was a lovely lady and eventually picked up a lot of English from us and told us she'd been here a year and her dh didn't allow her to learn English or integrate really but wanted her to earn. I can't really put into words how disgusting I found the way he treated her.
So I think it's essential that everyone who comes here has to learn at least enough to be understood including grandma and grandad.

B2 on the CEFR scale is what you need to function in a greater depth in society - your English is good enough to hold an ongoing conversation with someone. If you’re at uni, you really need C1, and C2 is professor level and definitely better than most native speakers! B2 is an exam I could pass (native speaker) without thinking too much about it. C1 I’d need to engage my brain a bit! If anyone’s interested in what’s expected, google ‘Cambridge English First practice paper’.

a grade C in gcse is just about able to say your name and order a cup of coffee in a cafe whilst telling the barista that you like playing tennis on Sunday morning. My daughter got a B (grade 6) in Spanish last year. She has zero functional Spanish and I don’t think could even count to 100. People need to be able to speak workplace level English if they are coming here to work.

It's proposing to move from B1 to B2 on the scale which I think is entirely sensible.

I moved to France for uni when I was in the B1 category and, frankly, it was a daily strain until my language skills improved. I definitely wouldn't have been able to work in any kind of skilled environment (including customer service of any type) at the level as was at then.

i was at about B1 level of German when i started working there. Boy, i got to B2 in about a week of total immersion but it was stressful. But for everyday life: shopping, going for meals, buying the things you need for an apartment, B1 would be fine.

The problem that newspapers have in reporting this kind of thing is that unless you are either involved in TEFL or dealing with people who have to demonstrate language competcy - nobody in the UK knows what the CEFR scale is.

When i worked in a massive Asian corporation, in order to progress up the "ranks" all the candidates for promotion had to show a TOEIC test result, the higher the level they were applying for, the higher the number of points they needed. Coaching them was a lovely lucrative sideline for me.

Because it should be mandatory for some jobs.

My son is under MH services and is really ill. Do you have any idea how difficult and frankly appalling it is being treated by somebody who doesn’t understand a lot of what you say, misunderstands quite key nuances and meanings and who you struggle to understand back. These are people in crisis so it’s a massive safe guarding issue. He has Autism too so is already extremely vulnerable. It simply isn’t good enough and these difficulties are widely known.

I had no idea how bad it is in some sectors and frankly I’m amazing nothing has been done about it up until now.

This statistic probably includes people who live in England but weren’t born here and don’t know the language well.

What’s with the outrage on this topic?

And what kind pathetic argument is that because the local populations here in increase illiterate, that we should bring in more illiterate people to lower the quality further. Surely immigration should be designed to better the quality of overall population by bringing in people who raise the bar.

Why do people in this country have such low standards for everything. ‘I cant spell my own name, so we must make sure that we lower the bar for immigrants also so I don’t feel so stupid’.

Yep its about the ability to integrate properly. Born and bred here don't have that to contend with.

It also doesnt mean what you said- it means that some people never ewach that stage (because they dont read at all or dont care about education), we have kids who hit secondary with reading ages of 6 year olds (!), and they progress to 11/12 year old reasoing stage by the time they leave secondary. But then they go off to do other stuff and reading age does not increase.

I have seen students regress too- I remember seeing some where their reading age in y7 and 8 was higher than when they took the test aged 15.

It's ridiculous because we urgently need to fill the gaps in health and social care and many other fields, and people who often are carers, hospitality workers, fruit pickers, construction workers etc are not as likely to have a PhD in English Lit. They are often still able to communicate very well in English, but won't necessarily have the 'standard' of A level students- and yet are not illiterate. The fact someone does not have this level of English does not ake them immediately illiterate, so you operarting with extremes is just silly.

We don’t urgent ‘need’ to fill any gaps. Stop lying.

We have millions of welfare dependent unemployed or underemployed adults. We don’t ’need’ to bring in people so these people can choose not to work.

It’s not a need, it’s a choice.

In MH services and caring roles with vulnerable people “communication” English is simply not good enough.

When your vulnerable,autistic
and suicidal child is continuously treated and handled by staff whose English is simply not good enough you wouldn’t think calls for a high level of English silly.

There's a few parts to this:

1. Many children won't reach an age 11 expectation at 11 - they'll only reach that much older.
2. Modern society makes it very easy to mask poor literacy. The popularity of the iPhone is predicated on the fact it's designed for very low literacy, relying on buttons and graphics to communicate.
3. A huge number of people missing out on lots of things because they don't have the literacy skills to engage.
4. That colleague who won't answer emails and who prefers to call to chat things over? They might just prefer that, or they MIGHT be only basically literate and masking.

I have a friend with a first class degree in music who always voice notes, who reads aloud painfully slowly, and who always gets mixed up when reading.

I also don't think it's as unreasonable for a higher qualification than is expected of a native - a native is able to mask in so many ways and immigrant couldn't.

Not an A Level in English Lit nor a PhD. Not the standard of English a native English speaking student would need to undertake A Levels.

But the level.of English that would be the equivalent of A level French, German, Spanish thar might be achieved by an native English speaking student.

Which is still a fairly basic level of English.

And is still not high enough if working in the MH sector or with vulnerable people.

Sorry I know it's not really relevant to the thread. But my point is if average 11 year olds don't reach the reading age we are calling "a reading age of 11" then it's not really a reading age of 11, it's more "a reading age we would like 11 year olds to have", and then the stat about average adults being at that level is suddenly less shocking.

I think you are conflating two separate issues - it's shocking that us Brits often have such low levels of literacy and we absolutely should correct this. However, it's madness to bring in more people who also have low literacy skills, just because they are at the same level as some of our own citizens. It just compounds our problem.

There is also an issue around some female immigrants never learning English and being trapped within their own communities, unable to communicate or integrate. Thats bad for them and it's bad for us economically, as it's more people using resources but not being economically active.

Alteratively the stat is bullshit. According to the literacy trust 16% of people have a reading age of less than an 11 year old, not 50%. That makes more sense. 50% of 11 years olds will have a reading a age of less than an 11 year old - that is how averages work.

Imagine if Spain demanded a high level of Spanish from all the British expats 😂

Does that mean should import more people with poor literacy? A level equivalent may be a bit much but at least ability to converse and read/write without translator

I think it would make sense for the government to focus on changing our incompetence culture. Too many people think it is cool to be not able to do basic maths for example rather than embarrassed.