Migrants required to pass A Level Standard of English

[onceuponatimeinneverland]

www.gov.uk/government/news/migrants-will-be-required-to-pass-a-level-standard-of-english
Just heard this on the news. Is it me or is it totally mad? Especially when you look at the relatively poor standard of speaking, listening, reading and writing that exists already for those actually born in the UK rather than migrating in.

I'm presuming that applicants won't actually have to sit A Level English language as that would be even madder.

Or maybe its entirely sensible. I'm all for having a literal workforce.

What do other countries request I wonder (can't be fussed to actually look).

Yes I am BU - A Level standard English is the bare minimum
No you aren't BU - Its mad

Crossed post emboxing. 🙂

ooooh they've just mentioned B2 on the news (Radio 4 6pm)

Are there two separate English language A levels? One for first language English speakers which (I believe) includes stuff about linguistics and accents etc, and one for those for whom English is an additional language? I think that's what's done in Wales with the Welsh A Levels. Excuse me if I'm talking bollocks.

I do agree that the standard of written and spoken English amongst the native population is pitiful.

I spoke to a very lovely Hungarian taxi driver not long ago who had been here since 2015 and his English was still very rudimentary. He tried his best and it hasn't stopped him integrating. It was in a place with a really strong regional dialect too, which can't have helped.

Seems entirely sensible to me

B2 sounds perfectly reasonable.

i have friends who have taken up citizenship in other European countries and they needed to do a language test to get to B2.

it’s not a-level in the sense of writing essays about books. It’s a level in the sense of being harder than (eg gcse German). I have gcse French and couldn’t begin to live and work in France.

They’re not talking about A Level English as we understand it. They’re talking about English to the standard your French would be if you have A Level French. C2 standard.

And actually an A level in a foreign language is still a very very long way away from being to fully integrate.

I got a B at A level German. Even when I passed it, I couldn't chat with a German with any fluency at all

I've heard it's people coming here on working visas. They wouldn't have no English or education.

I think France require B2 in French for citizenship. Spain IRRC only asks for A2 in Spanish.

I have a GCSE in French, grew up hearing alot of French and speak it fairly regularly on holiday and with colleagues. I reckon I could happily pass A2 in French, I would struggle to get B1 wothout a lot of extra study though.

Absolutely - my frustration is with government comms not you :) And the media - all the news outlets have grabbed this as a headline too.

Meanwhile, the state of foreign language learning in this country is absolutely rock bottom. Fewer 16 year olds are taking a GCSE MFL every year. There were only 2125 students who sat A-level German this summer.

I guess it makes sense to have similar expectations on immigrants as you do of any school leavers.

I actually don't hate this idea, assuming we'll be helping them to actually achieve these goals instead of making it as difficult as possible for them to pass and then kick them out.

ETA should have read the full thread before commenting 🤦🏻‍♀️ Looks like my second paragraph isn't particularly relevant!

It is perfectly reasonable to expect people coming to the UK to have a high standard of literacy in English. How else are they to get a well paying job which means that they will be able to make an economic contribution rather than being a burden on those people who pay taxes?

We have far too many immigrants who have no skills and little or no prospect of acquiring any. These people are a net burden on the state. They receive benefits, use the health care system and will be a bigger burden as they age. Since large numbers speak little or no English they cannot integrate and this exacerbates the problem of parallel societies.

It is irrelevant that many British people have low skills and will also be net recipients. There are also British criminals and other undesirables. We have no choice but to support them.

But we can choose not to add to their numbers.

In fairness the content of the LIUK test could do with being reevaluated and made more relevant to actual life in the UK. If people are going to be asked to do it it may as well be of genuine use to them, which I’m not convinced it currently is.

You can study A Level English Language, I have it as an A Level. At least when I did it, it covered linguistic theory, language structure and usage within social context, linguistic development and how English is taught to and learned by children and non-native speakers, as well as analysis into critical text reading skills, and writing for audience.

I worked at a place which employed mostly migrants from India, Pakistan and Brazil. A B2 English level requirement was already in force for the relevant visa route. When this came in, our Brazilians said "no way" would anyone they knew pass at that level and I did a bit of cursory Internet research which suggested that only 5% of the Brazilian population were able to speak English at more than beginner level.

Our Indian staff told us "there might be a way" involving a dodgy test centre which was actually in the UK. I shut down the conversation because we didn't want to pay flights for people to attend at this centre, wherever it was (London was mentioned, so all quite vague) in the hope that they might be issued with a B2 language certificate.

I've seen threads on here about foreigners taking degree courses in UK universities at great expense who barely know any English but as they aren't immigrants I presume that requirement will not able to them

A Level standard spoken English wouldn't actually be that high.

It wouldn't be fluent, for example, more able to get by using syntactically and semantically correct sentences with reasonable grammar and a wide enough vocabulary to enable someone to engage in every day life and get a job.

No one would be expected to take an A Level exam or write essays.

As someone else said, GCSE French wouldn't get you very far in France. A level French wouldn't make you fluent in French. It's still a fairly basic level of spoken language.

What's the pass mark for A level listening??

I’m glad you understood what I meant and that B in GCSE English wasn’t wasted too much 😂

That should go some way to replacing income lost from Brexit/reduced numbers of overseas students that would have been paid for ENIC statements of compatibility.

Won't particularly help fill care assistant or agricultural worker vacancies, though. An A level equivalent qualification in English as a first language (so a higher level than anybody from here with an A level in French/Spanish/German/etc) will also increase the entry requirements for degree level study (currently usually at GCSE Maths/English), so fewer international students, too.

Could be expensive.

Really? You’d only move somewhere if fluent in the local language? You’re certainly in a minority because a huge number of Brits abroad speak next to nothing of the language of the country they live in. For example Spain, Dubai, Hong Kong, China and lots of other places. Obviously they think that’s fine though because they’re ex pats and not immigrants.

Most educated Europeans can speak at least two or three languages fluently- usually their own language, English and then another one on top. Most English people can barely manage their own language and many make language blunders that I don’t think foreigners make eg “could have” and “we was”.

Not speaking the language you need is one of the world’s oldest tools of oppression.

A level standards are pretty low.

Education abroad is better in most countries acc OECD.

Basically, MFL GCSEs don't require the same level of spoken language as English GCSE requires in English.

They won't be required to sit A Level.English exams. Possibly the language standard equivalent of MFL A level subjects but English, which would be an MFL for them.

That's too high. Why not the highest level of ESOL? English language and lit A level is pointless to the average citizen, unless they want to be an English teacher or professional writer.

Most CEOs didn't do English at A level.

In Germany it's currently B1 for citizenship. That is a Duolingo score of 60 (minimum)