Friend and Continued Work Absence

[GentleWord]

I have a friend who has some mental and physical health diagnoses. She qualified as a teacher more than ten years ago. She has worked in different settings - state schools, private schools, and preschools.

Since then, she has had a few jobs as a teacher, but on average, she has up to half the time she is employed off sick. This does become an issue, and mostly she has to move on.

Never quietly. It usually goes through legal channels and I know the company have settled at least twice.

Before, I didn't think much about this, but now I have reason to think about schooling, I don't think it is fair that she keeps taking jobs that she cannot do. I'm actually unsure how she manages to get a new job with her history but apparently schools have only very recently been demanding of the last reference and now you can give "bad" references.

I don't think it is fair on the children to have a teacher who is so unreliable. I don't think it is fair on the staff. I think after a decade, it should be clear to her and her family that she cannot be a teacher. However, I think they cling to her profession as a status thing.

The same pattern is occurring again where shw is started to have repeated and medium term absences from a job she started last year. I think this time I should be a bit more honest with her about her career and the other people affected by how she engages with her job.

Unreasonable - dont say anything and just support her

Reasonable - find the words to say that teaching isn't an appropriate career choice.

well like most people, she needs to earn a living.
let her come to her own conclusions

What is the appropriate career choice then? You don't know if there are ANY jobs she could do without going off sick so often. When she goes off sick, she is too sick to work.

It'll never be "fair" to any employer, or colleagues, or client or customer or child... but we all expect disabled people and people with chronic health conditions to work - the government certainly expect it - so your friend is trying, and just going where her skill set is (when well enough at least).

Unless you're planning to advocate for long term/permanent sickness benefits being paid at a reasonable rate to people like your friend, or otherwise are planning on paying your friends living costs yourself, I'd say keep quiet. She is trying her best... And doing exactly what is expected of her.

Aim your complaints higher if you have that much of a problem with it.

Do you think she has the right to earn a living at the detriment of her students? Does she have more right to be a teacher than her students have to have teacher who can fulfil their duties?

"schools have only very recently been demanding ofbthe last reference"

Safer Recruitment means that schools always ask for a reference from the last job and this has been true for decades. I once had a gap in employment of 2 years and went back to my previous school to find that the Head, Deputy and immediate line manager had all moved on and noone could give me a reference. I cannot tell you how long it took to resolve this but the new job absolutely wouldn't accept a reference from anyone else.

why is that your concern?
she is supposedly your friend.

I think it would be less of an ethical issue to not show up to a retail job with regularity than it is to do that as an educator.

Her family and her would think that she is worth more than a retail job though and take immense pride that she can call herself a teacher. I mean they'd have preferred lawyer or something but teaching at least requires a degree.

It absolutely is not fair to either the students or her colleagues to keep taking these jobs if she in unable to fulfill the role. Not only that it sounds as though she is expecting to take as much time off as she needs and get paid for it, which is borderline fraudulent.

It sounds like, despite her difficulties, she is trying to work and maintain a profession.

She needs to be supported to do that and her employer has a statutory obligation to do so. What do you propose she does if she leaves her job? What job would be acceptable to be unwell in?

People are constantly moaning about benefit claimants on here and in the media. You can’t have it both ways. If we want sick and disabled people to keep working then we have to make adjustments for the impact their disability or health issues may have.

Because I wouldn't want my own child to have a teacher who was frequently absent. Sometimes for weeks and on top of that, odd days.

Weird that so many schools didn’t give any indication of her absence levels on references.

References in schools are certainly not a new thing and you’ve always been able to give a bad reference.

Don’t say anything as it’s unlikely to change her absence, but as it’s bother you so much end the friendship or at least distance yourself.

I think it would cause fewer issues in say Asda than it would be when you are the reception teacher of a whole class.

I know that a job she was absent for over a third of the time she worked there just stated her dates of employment and roles. There was nothing about her continued absence every though she ended up leaving because of it (and then sued them).

They would still have asked for a reference.

If she sued them it’s possible she got a settlement with an agreed reference though. But also very unlikely she’s gotten a settlement from every employer and none of them have indicated absence on a reference.

With friends like you who needs enemies.

i think you need to say nothing to your friend
you do not have her back

So people with disabilities should only be able to do certain jobs? Fucking hell.
Sorry Jackie but your MH issues mean that you can’t do the role you spent time training for so you need to go and work in Asda because those jobs don’t matter as much. That’s discrimination.

Can you hear yourself? I think you probably need to spend some time researching around equality legislation.

Have you also considered that the way that teachers and other public sector workers like nurses are treated has a direct impact on physical and emotional wellbeing? People are overworked and often bullied and more and more is expected of them so no wonder people go off sick.

Yes I think by this time, three or four teaching jobs in, we know there is a pattern where she starts the job, all is well until she starts to feel that at least some of her colleagues don't like her and/or the workload increases. Such as towards the end of the year when children are moving on or up. Then she starts taking weeks off for mental health related conditions and this is often on top of odd days as she feels she is "immunocompromised" and has "severe IBS".

This will go on for months of fit notes, some presence and some absence until she basically has to leave.

I do think that there is a responsibility to be able to deliver the job you're up for. I am not sure that her right to be a teacher trumps the students right to a stable education. Do you think it does, then?

You haven’t addressed the points in my post.

Her dad is a lawyer and I really think they have managed to get at least two settlements. I don't understand why they feel they can't write honest references either. I heard some rules changed this Spetember though.

I have. I am not sure the fact that she worked hard to become a teacher means she can be an incompetent teacher. I think the students have the right to have a teacher who can physically and mentally do the job and they can depend on their presence.

You're speaking as if anyone who goes to uni deserves to get a job even if they are really bad at it and even if it involves delivering a human right like education to others.

I think supporting our friends when they are behaving unethically isn't very friendly.

Likely to be glad to ‘pass her on’. I’m a teacher in a large (and lovely!) secondary and supply costs are crippling us - think in the hundreds of thousands by the end of the year. Unlike many jobs where people just get on with a missing colleague for a day or two, we have to have someone in front of the class.

We have a couple of people like your friend and it’s infuriating. Usually they manage to drag themselves back in just before the 6 weeks holiday to get their full pay for August. Off again in September for months.

I think sometimes you have to accept you are not cut out for particular career path. Maybe, a tutoring from home job might be more manageable for her?

How do you know she’s a bad teacher? She may be a very good teacher when she’s able to work.

You seem to think it’s ok to trash equality legislation. You also haven’t addressed the point about workplace stress and poor treatment directly contributing to the levels of sickness in some roles.

I wonder how she is supported to do her job and what the culture is in the schools she’s worked in. I can tell you there are some incredibly toxic work environments that actively make people ill.

Yes. This was actually suggested to her when she had a long gap between jobs but she is a EY teacher so feels she wouldn't be compensated well for the age of kids that typvially require tutoring. She'd want like £50ph plus. More probably.