Friend and Continued Work Absence

[GentleWord]

I have a friend who has some mental and physical health diagnoses. She qualified as a teacher more than ten years ago. She has worked in different settings - state schools, private schools, and preschools.

Since then, she has had a few jobs as a teacher, but on average, she has up to half the time she is employed off sick. This does become an issue, and mostly she has to move on.

Never quietly. It usually goes through legal channels and I know the company have settled at least twice.

Before, I didn't think much about this, but now I have reason to think about schooling, I don't think it is fair that she keeps taking jobs that she cannot do. I'm actually unsure how she manages to get a new job with her history but apparently schools have only very recently been demanding of the last reference and now you can give "bad" references.

I don't think it is fair on the children to have a teacher who is so unreliable. I don't think it is fair on the staff. I think after a decade, it should be clear to her and her family that she cannot be a teacher. However, I think they cling to her profession as a status thing.

The same pattern is occurring again where shw is started to have repeated and medium term absences from a job she started last year. I think this time I should be a bit more honest with her about her career and the other people affected by how she engages with her job.

Unreasonable - dont say anything and just support her

Reasonable - find the words to say that teaching isn't an appropriate career choice.

Because she had to. Because of family expectations to have a profession. You’re not too bright at understanding this, are you?
There are many ways one can “work with children” without being forced into a “profession” by one’s family and the immense stress that would cause every time you have to get up and go to work. Literally every single day of your working life.

If she’s been qualified for 10 years and had several jobs she’s unlikely to have been in them long enough to gain employment rights. That means a couple of things. Firstly she’s very unlikely to have qualified for fully paid sick leave. In most jobs you gain paid sick leave based on service eg 1 month paid/1 month unpaid per calendar year in the first year increasing with each year so she’s going to have had significant unpaid leave if she’s off half the year. Even local authorities start you off with limited sick leave.

The second is that if she’s leaving with a financial settlement the school/employer will have breached equalities legislation because that’s the only basis you can take action for dismissal in the first two years. And employers don’t pay a settlement unless they think they’re likely to loose at tribunal. So by any measure she’ll have had a rough ride especially given you acknowledge she has significant health issues.

Yes as a parent it’s frustrating if your child’s teacher is absent but employers have a duty of care to their staff. She has the right to apply for any job she likes, the employer has a duty to do due diligence. References have always included a record of absence, it’s highly unlikely every job she’s had hasn’t provided this, and people talk. So schools are employing her despite her absence record, which is their choice. You have absolutely no right to tell her what jobs she’s should or shouldn’t do.

She’s qualified and experienced and isn’t lying to get the role. It’s unfortunate that she has mental and physical health problems but I don’t see where it’s your place to start telling her she isn’t worthy of employment. She is a teacher after all, you’re not her employer and nor do you have any experience working with her.

It would be better all round if she was more honorable and said I can't do full time. Do supply, or part time/job share/ppa cover etc. Then she would have more chance of sticking in the role and the school would know where it was as well. It is hard (particularly in primary) when you think you have a whole teacher all year and it's just dribs and drabs and a partchwork of supply teachers in between. We had 4 years on the trot with DC2 and it was extremely disruptive for learning and class behaviour was all over the place. I know teachers are people and have lives, but the set up in this country (one teacher for a class all year) makes it difficult to pivot when the set up breaks down.

She would be better suited to supply work as being a teacher is a highly demanding career even if you have no disabilities or illnesses I think she should be honest with employers. Agree with you OP

I have voted YABU, not because I disagree with you but because it’s really none of your business.

My sister has an illness and she is unable to keep a full time position. She has also spent years at university training and retraining when she realised she would like to teach. She has decided to just do agency work (for teaching). That way if she isn’t well enough it’s not a big deal. They are lucky enough that they can manage on her partners wage. If they couldn’t though, as I’m sure many people are in this situation, she isn’t sure how they would cope.

I don’t believe all the nasty messages about how the OP is not a true friend. If it were my friend taking frequent absences from jobs, I’d suggest she gets help or find a job which she can do without out all the time off. Why are you only regarded as being supportive if you slavishly approve everything people do? She is not treating her employers, colleagues or students well. If she carried on doing it, I’d probably distance myself. Personally, I think she’s taking the piss from what you say-but am surprised she keeps finding employment.

I think if it was me I would just pull away from
the friendship.

No point saying anything as she is not going to change, sometimes as you get older, you just suddenly see people with new eyes and if you don’t like it then move away from it.

Don’t be around people that stress you out x

If she was forced into any profession, it would have been finance and accounting. She chose a teaching path at 19 or so.

She won't listen. Let them know anonymously about her history. The kids have a right to an education, she doesn't have a right to be a teacher.

Keep your nose out. Be a friend, not a busy body

More fool any school that employs a teacher without seeing their most recent reference and chasing up any inconsistencies or gaps. This has been standard practice for very many years.

And employers don’t pay a settlement unless they think they’re likely to loose at tribunal.

This really isn’t true. We paid a settlement a while back and there was a good chance of winning. The reality is the amount of time it took up was untenable and the consequent time costs of SLT plus HR and ICT just mean when an acceptable level was extended we took it.

It’s a balance. Would we have paid the £100k she wanted? Fuck no. We happily paid £30k which is where it ended up to put it to bed.

People will have different views on this depending on their own circumstances. If you are the parent of a child in OP's friend's reception class, you probably have much less sympathy for the absent teacher if it disrupts their child's learning, as a constant stream of supply teachers will mean that the children may have difficulties in bonding with the very temporary supply teachers.

People with friends or family with physical and/or mental health difficulties that mean that they can end up being signed off for long periods of time will only be considering the impact on their friend or family member, not their colleagues and, in this case, children who are adversely affected by these absences.

Oh, and then move on, she's not someone you want to be friends with, clearly - and that's fine.

You're right but I don't think there's anything you can do about it.

As the mother of a child whose teacher did this-I’m with op. My child learnt nothing. When the teacher did come
in the kids just watched films as she ‘didn’t feel up to teaching’. When she wasn’t there the class were babysat. It was awful and I couldn’t get him
out of that school quick enough.

You only feel it now- but why is it such a mission to you to stop her? Do you not feel sorry for the struggle her life must be more than you want to make a point in something that isn’t affecting your own children? I can’t imagine my life trying to be about whether I can face work/ how to find a way to stay home especially if she’s had to fight legal battles and had people on her case!! I’m sure the school has something or figures out a way to put something in place when she’s off. Either be a friend or don’t but she doesn’t need to hear something her life is totally about

How about re-framing it as what help does she need to be in a position to work consistently? Is she disorganised? Does she have a drinking problem?
there could be lots of things that get her into a position where she becomes overwhelmed and calling in sick is the “easiest” option.
being a teacher is really really hard. It sounds like she cannot cope.

Well this is all very ableist OP.

maybe you should criticise employers for failing to support your friend rather than relegating all sick and disabled people from professions.

Reasonable - find the words to say that teaching isn't an appropriate career choice

I missed the bit where she has asked for your opinion, has she asked what you think @GentleWord or are you just interfering?

First of all you are not her ''friend''....

You stated that she has health issues yet you think it is OK to blame her for needed to take time off because of these issues.

People can't just magically get rid of long term health conditions or disabilities. By definition they are with you for life.

It simply sounds like she is trying to work in spite of her health issues but still has to take time off when her health gets worse.

As someone who also has long term health issues/disability, this sounds like a very familiar pattern.

There is nothing ''unethical'' about being sick/disabled/having long term health conditions.

The best thing that this person can do is try to find a job that offers flexibility and reasonable adjustment such as working from home to help with managing her health and being able to work.

Unfortunately UK workplaces are still very old fashioned and rigid so I can tell you from experience that finding a flexible role is very tricky, not to mention that there is rampant discrimination in recruitment and the workplace for anyone who disclose a health condition/disability...

You clearly have a bee in your bonnet with the OP. It is absolutely possible to have a family expectation that you enter a profession and still choose a profession that you love. Ask me how I know.

You seem overly keen to make excuses for a grown woman who refuses to take responsibility for herself and refuses to accept she can't do the job she wants to do.

I've asked in what way the OP helps and supports her friend but there hasn't been a response to that

As someone with 20 years experience in retail management I can assure you that retail work is not the walk in the park you seem to think it is OP! It is often a high pressure, high stress environment with ungrateful and unpleasant customers to deal with. Large retailers also utilise very structured absence management processes so if your friend was to take on a lowly role in Asda (heaven forbid!) and her absence was as you described, she would find she is managed out as quickly as she has been in her education roles.

The point I'm trying to make is that regardless of which industry we are talking about, every employee is vital to the organisation they work for, and all any organisation can do us adhere to the processes they have in place for both recruitment and absence management. That is what these schools have done and what any future employer of you friend will do. It's not up to her to remove herself from the workforce, it's up to her employer to support her where possible and manage her where appropriate.