I want to start eating meals as a family but there are so many hurdles to overcome

[Rockininthefreeworld]

Please don't judge me. I'm really looking for some advice and just feel so dissatisfied with our whole set-up 😔

I have felt bad about the fact that we never eat as a family. We have two children, age 6 and 2, and they always eat separately to us. This is for a number of reasons...

1. DH is a very fussy eater, and won't eat 90% of the things I make for the children
2. DH and I both work full-time until around 6pm, making eating together quite challenging. Having said that, we both work from home a lot, so it is do-able with some planning (but then, see point 1...)
3. We have a kitchen island but no room for a dining table, which means eating together in the kitchen is just sitting in a row. This makes conversations feel a bit challenging.
4. We have a dining room (although carpeted...) and I'd love us all to eat in there, but DH gets very very funny about mess and smells. I've tried to approach the subject but he just gets annoyed and shuts it down. He uses the dining room to work, which is very annoying to be honest because I feel like that's a whole social room that we've just completely lost out on.

The 2 year old is at nursery full time which does give him "social eating" time, and I think the 6 year old is fine because we do eat out and I often go back to my parents where we sit together at the table. But, he also gets very bored if I'm not constantly entertaining him and he's not a stranger to the tablet at the table. I hate that and feel quite ashamed.

I just don't know how to handle this. I feel so dissatisfied with the whole arrangement, but DH isn't going to support me with it and it feels difficult trying to do it in the kitchen anyway. I just want us to have a nice family meal together, even just at the weekends, but even if we manage that it still has to be in the friggin' kitchen and no-one will talk to me, DS will moan for his tablet and DH will be on his phone. I've tried to implement this before (in the kitchen), and it just felt pointless in the end because I felt like I was fighting a losing battle.

Does anyone have any advice? 🙁

I know this is sad, but you already have a broken home. You have kids that are growing up walking on eggshells, not even allowed to use the lovely doors you have.

You are teaching children that a man dominates everything. You're teaching them terrible ideas about food, that it's something shameful. Your kids feel uncomfortable even going into the dining room, which should be communal space because your husband has taken it over as his private domain.

The issues are clearly a lot wider than food. You mention your husband doesn't even go for meals with your parents. You say he dictates almost every area of life with his inflexibility. He is threatening to leave you if you cook fried food.

As I said I have massive issues with food. I understand about him throwing the soup away. I remember a couple of years ago cooking pizza, and someone cut the only pizza I would eat, with a pizza wheel that hadn't been washed from a different pizza. Let's just say I went hungry. But that doesn't excuse his irrational behaviour. He clearly has enough intelligence to hold down a job and a partner, so he should understand the consequences of his actions.

If he was away for a few days, say with work, do you (or would you, if he never goes) feel liberated at the freedom you have for those few days? I suspect you would.

You know he can be both right? The arsehole bully bit comes in because he's being controlling and demanding, making no effort to deal with his issues or compromise even as much as swapping his office space

Does it not occur to you that perhaps he's trying to control it because he can't cope with his anxiety around it, rather than because he woke up that day and deliberately decided to be an arsehole?

Our subsequent conversation went as I predicted.

He said that the children don't need variety in what they eat. He's more than happy with how he's turned out and trying a variety of flavours really doesn't matter. If they grow up limited it's fine, because he's fine. I reminded him that everyone around him really isn't fine, but that seemed to have no impact.

I said it feels like he's saying to me that either I fall in line or he leaves. He said he's not making threats, just that he physically cannot cope with cooking smells and he cannot live in that environment, so he'd have to leave. I said there are a million other alternatives, like disappearing for the day whilst I batch cook, but apparently that's still not okay because the smells "get into the walls".

He said he doesn't understand the issue because we can make the kitchen island work and that should be enough. I realised as we were talking that yes, I could make the kitchen island work, and that would probably be fine, but I don't want to. I'm so tired of making endless compromises for a man who will never do the same for me.

At this point it's more about how he's handled this than anything else. Immediately dictating that we can't use the dining room rather than trying to get to the root of why I want to.

I understand his issues and I understand certain things must be really hard, but I've lived like this for 12 years and I just want to be heard. I don't feel like I have a say at all. We can't do any work to the house because building work stresses him out. I can't use the log burner because he hates smoke (despite the fact it goes up the flue...), I can't leave the backdoors open, we can't even open the dining room door half the time because he doesn't want the cat in there.

@TwinklyStork I want to be mindful of all of this, but I don't know how to handle it. I don't necessarily think he's doing any of it on purpose, but what am I supposed to do? He won't get help, he doesn't think anything will help and won't even entertain it

Call his bluff

yes he can leave

if he doesn’t reliese he sounds that you have a dining room that you can’t use for all of you as he doesn’t want food in it 🙄

Yes, call his bluff.

Just start living the way you want to live and he can like it or lump it.

I’m sorry how this is turning out. But he’s leaving you no choice.

The next question is, does he understand how things will work if you separate, how he will have the children by himself, without you as a buffer, and will have to get on with parenting two little individuals? And that if he continues like this, refusing help, refusing to compromise, the end result is that he won’t see his children or be part of their lives?

Obv no one wants their marriage to break down. I didn’t last year and put up with stuff myself and dd shouldn’t have had to for years

your dh isn’t willing to compromise

and to not allow a kid to have a door done so can okay in the garden is totally controlling behaviour @Rockininthefreeworld

was he always this bad or got worse over the years

and

I keep asking as do others

what does dh eat ?

I wish I had the answer to that for you and I'm sorry I don't. Only you know if he's deliberately being an arsehole or whether you can cope with possible ND or anxiety driven behaviours - in sickness and in health, and all that - but it's just so jarring to see people automatically thinking it's deliberate when it seems quite clear to me that it's a coping mechanism of some kind. I wonder if these folks would say the same things about their autistic children, undoubtedly some people here have them.

That is his choice.

Yours is rightly refusing to let your children live like this so either he gets help, copes with it or goes

then he has many choices

what you can’t do is limit your children because they will end up with anxiety and potentially other mental health issues as well.
living like this isn’t healthy

We can't do any work to the house because building work stresses him out. I can't use the log burner because he hates smoke (despite the fact it goes up the flue...), I can't leave the backdoors open, we can't even open the dining room door half the time because he doesn't want the cat in there.

WHAT THE FUCK. Seriously. Why are you living like this?!?!

@TwinklyStork for DS yes it was a coping mechanism when things were at his worse with OCD and anxiety

but staying that way wasn’t an option and we have worked through it and he is so much happier

On the assumption that you really really love this man and want to make things work, I'd suggest you teach to him and explain

• that things will have to change because it's not fair on you or the kids for things to stay as they are
• but you can understand how difficult it is so if he commits to undergoing therapy for his issues then your are willing to slow down the charges so he can work through it in therapy at the same time.
• if he won't do therapy then it's his choice to put up with the changes or leave.

Perhaps make a list of the changes you want (don't hold back on this, make it comprehensive) and he can help choose ones to start with and build up.

But you can't and shouldn't live like this.

I would also tell him to leave. I grew up with a father who similarly expected to call the shots on EVERYTHING and the result was I couldn’t wait to move out. I disliked being in the same room as him and he used to bully me in order to assert his authority. Do you really want a situation like that for your children?

I didn't say he was deliberately being an arsehole but he still is being one. And making no compromise or attempt to deal with his anxiety other than going I've got these issues and everyone else needs to do as I day about them

Yours is rightly refusing to let your children live like this so either he gets help, copes with it or goes
then he has many choices

Does he, though? What "help" do you imagine is available for autistic adults, or adults with something like OCD? I'd like to hear your thoughts on that.
Even if he was amenable to it, which I can understand is possibly terrifying for him, have you ever tried to navigate the mental health system in its current state, assuming his issue is OCD? Or get an autism diagnosis as an adult? Do you know how long the waiting lists are? In my area it's six years, just to get to the top of the waiting list for the initial assessment, and then back on the waiting list for the autism assessment itself. And then it's just an assessment; there's no treatment, no therapy, no cure. Just a label.

Just "get help".
"Get help" is trotted out endlessly in response to issues like this.
This mythical "help".
It doesn't exist.

So basically, in your OWN HOME you "aren't allowed" to:

Cook anything at all that smells (which is pretty much everything)

Sit and have a meal in the dining room with your children

Have the patio doors open on a nice day

Allow the cat in the dining room (not sure why not when you don't even eat in there...)

Have the log burner on when it's cold

Correct?

Entire family of ND people here. All with their individual idiosyncrasies. In your shoes (and we have fussy eaters, a couple over sensitive to smells etc) i’d do the following.

I’d make the dining room his office and be done with it. Door closed. End off.
I’d make the kitchen island work (all my friends use this, the dining room is only used on high days and holiday and/or when we have visiting family).
I’d feed the kids separately, joining them most days, and early in the evening with a wide range of foods - prepared with windows wide open, doors closed and husband’s space also closed off.
I’d feed him whatever beige, unscented food he wants later in the evening when he’s finished work (this is not different to my DH eating when he comes home at 730/8pm, my kids having eaten at 6pm, even as teenagers).
I’d do a family meal that everyone can eat together once or twice at weekends.

This doesn’t fix the other stuff.. and again I say we are an entirely ND household and NO ONE is allowed to entirely dictate the rules, but we do accept that DH works long hours and can be tired at the weekends/evenings. He’s also not the fussy eater (DD is, DS was) but he HATES food smells permeating the house and lingering in bedrooms. Eldest/DD is the same and won’t eat if DH/DD are having a curry and will insist upon waiting until later in the evening to grab her own meal. As it’s not every night, we let this go. No need to make every meal a battle.

We also changed the kitchen doors, coincidentally, to fire-doors (loft conversion) and in fact they are excellent at keeping smells confined to the kitchen, so we use windows and the extractor fan and contain it this way. I actually can now appreciate the fact that the smells in the bedroom can be a bit rank when someone forgets to close the doors these days (slow cooking tends to lead to lingering food smells).

I was speaking more of meals, but regarding tablets, yes, they can really help at times. When out and about, they can allow a person to warm up to things at their own pace. For example, rather than entering a nosy restaurant with family and being expected to engage straightaway, headphones and some time on the tablet can help with the transition before they’re able to engage more fully.

Sounds like you have a massive DH problem! Skimmed the thread, but it sounds like he is making no effort to accommodate others or help his autism and OCD to have less of an impact.

Ive always insisted on eating together with the children, having mealtime discussions etc
Caused issues with exh when we were together (far from the only thing that did) - for example he would never say when he was coming home but I was always clear that dinner time is at 6 (when they were small) and that’s when we eat and chat - I didn’t wait to eat separately with him at whatever o’clock.

My youngest is now 11 and has been diagnosed a couple of years back with ADHD and dyslexia. He’s absolutely flying at things like history and geography at secondary school because we discuss things at the table - so he knows where different countries are, how and why they’re in the news, knows about various historical and political events etc. He even admits this much as he often finds it annoying (eldest dd17 is very academic and loves all this sort of chat)

You cannot overestimate the importance of eating together and taking together.

So I don’t think it’s a small thing to make your “die in a ditch” issue at all.

My (autistic) DP is very similar with smells. He gets very stressed if he gets cooking smells on him. All his sensory issues are worse when he’s stressed. But with autism you feel sensory things so much more, very physically and it’s upsetting in a way that’s hard to explain.

There are long-running threads on here aimed for neurotypical people who have been though a lot of frustration and realised their partner is neurodivergent - you might like to read it. It’s the “Married to someone with Aspergers / ASD support thread”.

You're considering building work so you can eat at a table when you have a dining table in a dining room already?!

He sounds awful. Your kid's diets sound like they're suffering- that's an incredibly limited list that you wrote and to exclude onions and garlic basically excludes half of all dinner dishes?!

Tablets at the table are ridiculous, take it away. You get in at 6pm and consider you need a break from parenting- absolutely ridiculous. There's just been another report on how bad screens are for children- 10% lower grades in maths and reading- show your DH.

• We eat around the table 6/7 nights minimum, NDs included. No screens, 3 kids 5 and under. 30mins to an hour. Very normal and possible once you're in the habit. The 3yo generally helps set the table, 5yo helps clear it both by choice.

I should add - if DS absolutely needs it as he’s very disregulated on a particular day, I will let him watch a programme with headphones - I do understand that ADHD / autism can mean sometimes they have to.

But it’s a rare thing and he knows it’s the exception not the rule. He can usually bear to sit and talk to us! I do let him go off between main course and pudding if he needs to - but if he’s interested in a conversation he won’t!

How can you or your children be happy living like this OP? Do you want your children to end up being like him?
You only have one life. Yes, it's really really hard putting yourself first for once instead of doing what your husband says, but maybe it would be better all round, for you, your children and him if he did leave?