Why can’t the Israelis and Palestinians just live in peace?!!

[elprup]

Surely that’s what the overwhelming majority want. Let’s face it, 99% of us just want to get on with our lives in a quiet, peaceful way and do the best for our kids. So why can’t they all just lay down the weapons and live together, in harmony? Open the borders and live as one, forging a brighter future for their kids?

This ^

But I think it does mean that cultures that adopt fundamentalist Islam as a guiding principle are incompatible with societies that allow women and gay people equal rights and legal protections, and try to maintain tolerance between those from different faiths and cultures
but fairly compatible in their shared behaviour with many Christian voices from more fundamental churches (eg much of the rhetoric coming out of the USA over the last couple of years and parts of the Jewish population too.

The idea that you can only get along if you share all the beliefs of your neighbours is ludicrous. We simply don’t have to all believe in the same thing at all.

Jews and Arabs living in Palestine have hated each other for hundreds of years. for all the same kinds of reasons other peoples in other parts of the world often hate their close neighbours.

Nothing about the way the region was managed after WWII seems likely to change any of that.

Yes. How much longer are Hamas going to be allowed to exist in Gaza - as in, when will the new international peacekeeping force arrive?

I have serious doubts about this ceasefire/truce whatever people want to call it.

Israel have already given Hamas until tonight to return the bodies/remains of the other hostages.
If they don't then it seems in Trumps own words that "all bets are off".

So now the human shield effect of the hostages has gone, then there is nothing stopping the Israelis reducing Gaza to rubble.

But not all.

These wars had nothing to do with religion ; Korea, Vietnam, the Falklands conflict, the Iran-Iraq war, the first Gulf war, the Rwandan genocide and the Communist Revolutions in Russia, China, Southeast Asia and Cuba.

Quite. See also: World War I; World War II; Putin’s current war in Ukraine.

Mumsnet isn't for military history. Positively disavows it a lot of the time.

Again the lack of empathy is astounding.

You wrote " ah sure Most countries have history that they’re not proud of. My take is, don’t look back, look forward"

So should Israel also say that about what they have done to the Palestinians?

After all the death and destruction that Israel caused.? "Ah sure don't look back, look forward". And just shrug it off? Im sure the palestinians will remember their dead brothers, sisters and parents.

Again, what i find utterly bizarre is how people from the UK on here can say that what what Israel did is wrong,

Yet they completely brush off all terrible things that the UK did.

So death, destruction, murder and rape is ok when the UK do it to other countries?

You should be totally fucking ashamed of yourselves

This thread is an interesting one on human psychology.

No one likes to see themselves as the bad guys.

People on here from the UK condemn Israel for what they did.

But when it is pointed out to those same UK posters that the U.K invaded, stole land, raped and murdered many many people. That the UK caused destruction and devastation around the world.

They brush it off. They don't want to see their country as the bad guys. They get defensive

Its the same when i have talked to some Israeli people. We say to them "mass murder of civilans and children is wrong" and they say no but it is the Palestinians fault.

Uk people do the same thing too. I have yet to see one UK poster on heres show any empathy or kindness for what the UK did to other countries. I am still waiting. I am not waiting for someone to express personal shame. I am waiting for someone from the UK to even acknowledge the terrible acts that the UK committed around the world.

Because of religion. The cause of many wars over the ages.

But this thread is about the situation in Gaza, despite your attempts to derail it.

But not all, as was posted upthread.

More info here

https://medium.com/metaphor-hacker/guns-glory-and-greed-most-wars-were-not-caused-by-religion-but-they-werent-prevented-by-it-a3002aee387f

Again you are proving my point. You are showing zero empathy.

I am not the first poster that mentioned Northern Ireland on this thread.

Scroll back and look.

I added to the existing discussion about Northern Ireland. When several posters talk about a topic , it is not derailing. It is an important topic.

Anyone can see the glaring hypocrisy of U.K. posters condeming Israel occupying Palestine, while the U.K. is still occupying Northern Ireland .

@Helenalove "U.K. is still occupying Northern Ireland "

This ^ is incorrect

Britain does not occupy Northern Ireland; rather, it is a constituent part of the United Kingdom since the Government of Ireland Act 1920. Northern Ireland has its own devolved government and is not a separate foreign entity, sharing a border with the Republic of Ireland. The Good Friday Agreement of 1998 ensures that any change in its status would require the consent of its population..

Ireland wanted Northern Ireland to be part of Ireland.

The U.K. forced Ireland to hand over Northern Ireland to the U.K.

Do you think Ireland just said

"here take a large chunk of our island! No problem".

The U.K. forced Ireland to give Northern Ireland to them. Northern Ireland was taken by force,

and the current situation of having a split island, Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, has caused a huge amount of problems in Ireland.

Britain does not "occupy" NI.

You need more education 🙄
I'ts about land not religion 🙄

You are heartless. You write vague statements and dont care about anyones pain.

Israel could say the same thing that you said. They could say that Israel is not occupying Palestine. That palestine is their land. When the outside world sees that Israel is treating Palestine extremely cruelly.

Why do you think there was war for so long in Northern Ireland? The descendants of the locals and the descendants of the colonisers fought for a very long time.

Anytime I talk to anyone that is not from the UK about Nothern Ireland. People from the rest of the world say to me "why don't the U.K. give Northern Ireland back?"

You wrote
"Britain does not occupy Northern Ireland; rather, it is a constituent part of the United Kingdom since the Government of Ireland Act 1920."

You left out some vital parts of history

In 1920, Ireland wanted total freedom from the U.K.
The U.K refused to give this freedom. The U.K instead proposed a deal where the U.K got to keep Northern Ireland, and the rest of Ireland would be free.
Ireland did not want this. But the UK refused to offer any other deal. Irish politicians felt they had to accept this del at the time, as it was the best of a very bad deal.

This deal (the UK getting to keep northern ireland) was not accepted by many Irish people at time and caused the Irish civil War, where many lives were lost.

Ireland did not have a choice in the UK taking Northern Ireland. This led to many problems including the later troubles in Northern Ireland.

Its how the world goes. Once too much time has passed you can't just undo people's lives. It's the same as telling every settler in the USA and Australia to go back to their original country and give it back to the natives. It doesn't work once generations have lived in the land.

Ths USA and Australia are not split into two countries. Ireland is split into two. That is very rare, and it still causes problems to this day.

So do you think we should just say "thats just how the world goes"

About the Israel/ Palestine conflict

aswell?

Ths U.K. took Northern Ireland by force.

Explain to me how they are not occupying it?

I think that this is exactly the point and the reason why we could drift into ww3. Most people are simply not aware of how wars start and how the people on the land affected by the war feel. I would put money on most posters here not having a clue how the Ukraine Russia conflict started and not having a clue how the Israel Palestine conflict started. And the links between those conflicts and every major conflict going back to ww1.

Exactly. A lot of wars have been started over land..
It happens. Thats how the world was, yes. But you cant just invade somewhere, take land and then say "fuck it, it will be grand"

The UK government was a bit stupid about Northern Ireland. They seemed to not anticipate all the problems that taking Northern Ireland would cause.

Its disheartening. Because I have lived in England and I have lived in the republic of Ireland and I have lived in Northern Ireland. I worked on a peace project in Northern Ireland and I saw the devastation and suffering on both sides.

In England, no one I talked to gave a shit about what happened in Ireland as it doesnt affect them. And also i think they dont like to see the UK government as the bad guys.

They do give a shit about whats happening in Palestine, as someone else is the bad guy.