National Trust & tampons

[oncemoreuntothebeachdearfriends]

NT have made free tampons available in the gents' toilets in a castle in the Lake District. Not unisex toilets, but actual gents.

Not just any tampons, but vegan tampons (WTF are they?).
And they're also available in the ladies.

YABU They are demonstrating what a kind, caring organisation they are, & covering their arses.

YANBU They are bonkers, tossers... add your own words.

Agree

however if they are seen to be encouraging a different sex into a single sex toilet then they could be in contravention.

And if someone complains that a women is in the men’s toilets this is evidence against them

Your eagerness to quote a transwoman's sex offender's name to make a point0 reminds me of the readiness with which Tommy Robinson's followers will quote the names of BAME sex offenders. Do you keep a list? Or is there some easy-reference website you use to keep track?

No they haven't made it mixed sex, because tampons are inanimate objects that don't have a sex and don't impact anyone's use of the facilities. They also wouldn't be in contravention of any guidance if there was a condom machine in the ladies, for example.

Is it so partners can get them for women? As someone who has experienced flooding from endometriosis I would have loved to send hubby to grab me one so I didn't have to risk a huge dramatic gush of blood when I went to source one. Perhaps also fathers of teens or older children who might not feel confident enough. Indirectly I think it's good to expose men to period products to normalize menstruation and encourage greater empathy but that's just a byproduct and probably not the point they're trying to make.

I think this the most likely reason. It’s that simple.

Yet, even the BBC reported it this way: www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c74z04j23pwo
Specifically:
"It argues that for the Equality Act to be consistent, the term woman has to mean a biological woman. That does not include biological males, even if they have certificates to say they have changed gender.
This means that where there are, for instance, women-only spaces, then a biological man who identifies as a woman cannot use them. That includes changing rooms, toilets, women's refuges, single-sex hospital wards and anywhere designated as for one sex only."

😂 Now we know what days out to recommend to the gentleman on the other thread who had kittens when that OP accidentally left a wrapped, unused sanitary towel in plain sight. We must tell him to be sure to make the most of the men's facilities.

Have you seen transmen? I’d rather they used the gents than the ladies.

Out of interest, do you think men (or men who identify as women) should be allowed into women’s spaces?

because I don’t think you can accept one but not the other. So it does impact women.

Brilliant

If they pass they have to really.

"Crucially, the ruling provides a clear framework for what equality laws mean. The EHRC says it is "working at pace" to update its guidance, and expects that to be ready by the summer.

It has already made it clear that if a single-sex space, like a toilet or changing room, is women-only, that means biological males who identify as women should not use it."

"Should not" - yes I'll agree with that, should not.

"Should not" does not mean "illegal to do so", however, and this is where your interpretation of the ruling fails.

The EA, which is impacted by the SC ruling, does not apply to individuals but to organisations. The broad effect of the ruling is that organisations must provide single sex toilets (if they are going to split toilets by sex, unisex toilets are also acceptable).

This has absolutely no impact on the personal legality of an individual using the loos, and it is not illegal for someone to be in the opposite sex loo.

I seriously doubt we will see any kind of legislation on the individual point as frankly it would be a complete fucking nightmare to a) draft, b ) get through parliament, and c) enforce. I'm also not aware (although happy to be corrected) that we have any spaces in the UK where it is actually illegal to enter if you are the wrong sex.

You can’t seriously think bringing up condoms is relevant

On a serious and practical point, females transitioning to males might still need menstrual products but have progressed far enough to be thrown out of the women's toilets if they tried to use them. The number of people may not be large, but they are there.

And what conceivable harm can making the tampons available do to anyone?

Why not? Apparently PP seriously think a tampon in a toilet means it's now mixed sex, despite the very obvious fact that tampons are inanimate objects with no sex.

A trans man, presenting as man, is going to end up going into the men’s toilet. Whatever anyone thinks about how toilets should be split, it’s what’s going to happen.

So they need to have tampons in there.

To be fair, even if no trans man ever went in there, it wouldn’t be the end of the world for tampons to sit there uselessly.

I don't know why you think condoms are relevant? As a woman I might not wear one, but I definitely use them. In fact in my experience, I am more likely to insist on their use than a man.

Sorry but what a load of old crap. Men AND women both benefit from condoms.if there was such a thing as a ‘lesbian loo’, then yes condoms would be pointless. But as women need condoms when they have sex with men as much (if not more) than men, then it makes sense to put them in both or either.

but tampons are for women (the good old fashioned type) and they may be inanimate objects in and of themselves, but they are representative of a condition unique to women (ahem feeemales). So you’re making a statement by putting them in the men’s. Also if you are saying women who identify as men need them in the loos a) we’ve only just started getting them in women’s loos and coped all this time without/nabbing one off a fellow period-haver. And b) it’s basically like saying we should leave the toilet seats up in case a transwoman comes in and doesn’t want to sprinkle on the seat - let’s just play to the majority for once when the majority is a bloody minority who has suffered for millennia at the hands of men eh?

But the funding for these dispensers and products is limited. Surely it would be better to install it in another ladies loo where women and girls in need might actually use it, rather than have it gathering dust as some virtue signalling exercise?

because men aren't legally allowed in womens loo's any more, and they are still the husbands, boyfriends brothers, and fathers of women and children who DO have periods.

If they're going to ban men from the womens loo, and men may need to help wives/daughters, then they need to be available in the mens too.

This is correct
Women can only take the organisations or business to court if they are removing their right to single sex spaces.

This includes encouraging ie tampons would count as visible encouragement
or
Not removing a person reported as in the wrong toilet or changing etc space

Women can of course call security, the police etc to have the person removed.

I can see this getting very messy if people use toilets and changing rooms etc that are not aligned with the single sex provision

So a man goes into the NT gents loo to get a tampon for his daughter, who is then presumably going to go to the ladies loo to use it? Why can't she just grab one there?

Putting sanitary pads into the gents is a good idea as some people (male and female) have conditions that cause bleeding, my dh uses sanpro when he has a flare up as it’s a lot cheaper and better quality than medical pads

That isn't the reason.
It's virtue signalling. It's TRAs in the NT management saying that trans people may use the facilities of their choice despite the SC ruling.

https://sex-matters.org/take-action/know-your-rights-changing-rooms-and-toilets/