Would you report this group chat?

[Fabulously]

My university has a student forum where the module chair shared details of a group chat he created for students to get study support. The group chat is not officially endorsed by the university but has well over 100 students and university staff members included such as tutors.

I’ve only been in it a week (haven’t posted anything) - but it gets heated; the module chair sends frequent edgy jokes about politics, disabilities, schools etc. Others join in with more outright inappropriate messages about immigration and benefits & the like, arguing ensues.

Earlier today, he got into a full argument with one of the students who started insulting the module chair’s mother in response, module chair responded in kind - basically a bizarre dispute. Would you just exit the chat or also make some attempt to report the unprofessional messages? I feel uncomfortable reporting given staff members are involved, as I wouldn’t want it to impact my studies! But at the same time it makes me look at the university differently, if the staff act like this, like I wouldn’t go to that module chair for help if I had to.

@anyolddinosaur you're still missing the point that the chair's problem.with their child's school is a personal matter. They should not be bringing it into their university student group.

I would stay in the chat group as it may be useful as per its intended purpose. As to the unpleasantness, it's always useful to know what sort of people you are dealing with. Reporting people to the authorities will not change their natures, at best it will continue behind closed doors. Note it to yourself and move on.

Yes, exactly, you should try not to be a horrible cunt. It's lovely you have that self awareness though :)

My University has a report and support function for stuff like this.

It sounds completely inappropriate and leaves both staff and students open to all kinds of disciplinary action.

As for the ' You can't say anything these days ' posters...once again, hate speech is different from free speech, and even free speech doesn't mean free from consequences.

I am so very pleased you wrote this :)

This is exactly who the OP is. She has made it abundantly clear that she actually believes that anyone who disagrees with her is her inferior and those who speak words that enrage her have no right to exist.

She actually believes this.

And what a temper she must have to have shone such a horrifying spotlight upon herself.

And just think, if this is what she is willing to say in public, one can only imagine the thoughts that must caper through her head.

The OP is definitively not the good person in the Whatsapp Group, but she's very good at "othering" those who dare to speak words or think thoughts she disapproves of.

And she is also very markedly not superior to anybody on this thread, or this site. In fact, anybody who can make statements like that would struggle to find any sort of high horse that could support them 😅

People who support Orwellian dictates are always pretty awful people, but I have rarely seen one so openly admit it.

Thank you. Most sincerely. 😘

The relationship in this chat is formed through the university and their paid employees and students paying for a service from the university. That's the only reason it exists. So anyone employed by the university participating in the chat has to reflect the values of the university. It's not a question of 'they are all adults so it doesn't matter'. It very much does matter. If the university States it has certain values then their employees have to uphold them when representing it in their paid capacity.
It doesn't say much for that professional working for the university that they don't realise this. The critism around benefits claimants or any targeted group creates a hostile environment for them and is not inclusive.
I would very much report it to the university.

Report it, and force people who wish to speak freely underground. Create a public/private split where we toe the line in public, fear that walls have ears, and whisper in private.

it creates a wonderful society for all when we police each other constantly. Do it. It’s your duty.

@NoBinturongsHereMate Not at all. A lecturer used to be able to chat to students about anything. If they bored you then you zoned out.

But in this day and age do you really think the events described here happened. A person who supposedly works in an organisation well used to compromise and expressing themself politely in cases where is a dispute and on their second degree so not a niave fresher is unable to tell someone if they are being inappropriate, This is supposed to be happening in a university where the chance of 100 students and staff in a chat not having one woke enough to complain already is zero. Then you add that really offensive response to someone disagreeing with them.

This sounds, at best, very odd. From friends who work at them, I hear that universities can be a bit like this in some blurring of professional and personal boundaries. I can’t think of other professional settings where the chat you’re describing would be acceptable (even setting aside sensitive content), because it’s a mixture of employees and students.

Then there are the obvious issues like power imbalance between staff and students, given that students are technically adults but usually still very young, etc. Then there’s the inappropriate content itself.

Agree with @Flibberdigibbit : ‘If you leave it, you miss out on any help that may be available in it - but staying leaves you subject to their rants and what sounds like conversations a lot of us would have no time for. This isn’t really a freedom of speech issue.’

I think there’s no issue at all in raising a concern if you want to. A key point is that this group is meant to offer maths support and either it does that professionally or it arguably shouldn’t exist as a maths support group. The people who want to are presumably welcome to have a separate chat to discuss whatever they want (though I still think a mixture of staff and students in a social chat is problematic).

Offering study support in such a way that some feel excluded because of inappropriate/irrelevant discussion topics is potentially an ethical issue because you can’t have some students benefitting from support and others not. It definitely doesn’t sound like a maths chat at the moment! I think you have genuine grounds for raising it as a concern from this angle if you want to avoid other angles.

This isn't a group chat created by mates in the pub. This is a chat to support academic progress based on a contractual relationship. That's its purpose. It is incumbent that everyone can feel that they can participate without hearing other's prejudices or rants about personal matters, especially when the they are the lead of the group and have a power dynamic.
Nothing to do with freedom of expression. You would be concerned that anyone employed to facilitate these types of groups didn't realise this.

Additionally, I did not say the OP was Hitler, nor did I imply it.

I said Hitler and every other totalitarian dictator in history salutes those who police wrongthink.

Hitler was rather well known for thinking that he was superior to those who he wanted not to exist, of course.

And then the OP popped in to snarl that everyone who disagrees with her can be categorised as her inferior and that she thinks I should not exist for writing words and thinking thoughts she doesn't agree with.

And at that point, all I could do was laugh.

Seriously? That last comment is dreadful. You are complaining about people saying nasty stuff in a group chat and then you come off with that? In the spirit of free speech I don’t intend to report your comment as I think it NEEDS to stand. Others may feel differently. I reckon you should retain your membership of the WhatsApp group because it sounds as though you’ll fit right in.

Oh I agree, I definitely did not report it. I want people to see who she is.

She is the perfect example of those who support the thought police.

How can there be academic progress when people seek to sensor anything to which they disagree . You don’t create inquisitive minds by hearing one narrative . How can anyone go through life hearing only likeminded individuals. The whole thing is part of the culture wars that have lead to the rise of Reform . Suppress conversation to this degree and people rebel which is what we are seeing now .

I'm a university lecturer and this is very much not on - yes, we can chat with students and express opinions but this seems to have gone a fair bit further than that. I would mention it to the course director.

I hadn’t seen this update when I posted my response to you above. There’s no need for this at all.

This is possibly the most ridiculous thing I have read on here for a while, and that’s saying something.

If you can’t see this has nothing to do with “free speech” then you have a problem.

Or, is it “speech free of consequences” you really want?

Great post. The lack of self awareness indicated by making that comment is astonishing.

I think you’re applying a very general principle to a specific scenario where other factors trump freedom of speech. Here, the trump card is that it’s a professional environment so personal matters should only be shared between employees and students in very limited circumstances. An analogy might be:

A doctor sets up a chat where patients can purportedly get support with quitting smoking or vaping, and other colleagues join as well as many patients, yet the focus is significantly on the doctor’s personal life and other unrelated matters. Everyone on the chat is an adult and has consented to being part of it, but it’s still inappropriate because the doctor has set it up in their capacity as a professional not as a private citizen.

Because a someone making this kind of complaint can seriously damage their career, particularly if they are a woman. Whistleblowers are allowed to be anonymous, that’s protected by law, and quite rightly too.

Where is OP supposed to get her maths support then, if the so called support forum is for personal, private discussion?

Perhaps ask an innocuous maths question and see what responses you get. Might be a good way to remind people what the group is supposed to be for.

Nope, entirely about free speech. OP has not given a single example of anything said, or any indication that anything could be categorised at hate speech.

She simply said she found the jokes inappropriate and doesn't like the tone. The reason she has given no examples is that there are no examples of anything that needs to be reported. Adults are allowed to disagree with one another, tell jokes that others don't like and even be robust about it.

That's free speech.

Additionally, I encouraged the OP to report them, and I meant it. I firmly believe that nothing will be done at all in response to her complaint, because nothing needs to be, or can be, done about people exercising their right to say words other people might not like.

Op then popped back later to point out that she believes herself to be superior to everyone who disagrees with her and that I should not exist for writing words she does not agree with.

I mean, I'm not saying that anyone who is supportive of her stance is as bad as she is, but I'd think twice about aligning yourself with someone who has such extremist, hateful views as the OP has posted here.

Great analogy. If the lecturer wants to set up a private group chat to share jokes and make comments about immigrants and disabled people, they should do that. They can invite staff and make it clear it is a private group and control the membership of it.

If the department sets up a chat designed to support students and shares the general invite with students, using that chat for this purpose is not a few people sharing racist comments on a group chat. It has become a public form where the level of accountability changes. They can still do those things if they like, but they wouldn’t be able to claim it’s a private group chat with consenting adults.

I would report this for one reason only. This puts the university at risk of reputational damage and the management will want to know this is their risk. If there are scores of unknown users in the group, all it takes is for one person to screenshot the most odious of comments and post them online and there will be a scandal. In today’s climate it is highly likely someone would do that.

Honestly? I wonder if you could post a message along the lines of you think that it would be great to have a group for maths support but you hadn’t realised that there would be so much personal chat on it. It’s difficult for you to follow the group in this case. Then ask if there is a separate group solely for maths support.

Ideally recruit a bunch of people to jump in with “Yes, I’d like that too!”, “Great idea!”. Once a dozen or so people have made it clear they don’t like the personal chat then it should get the point across.

More ridiculous than ops vile comment?
i don’t have a problem with free speech and with that in mind, it’s quite clear that the world would be a better place without you in it. Here’s another love heart ❤️ ?

Also not reporting as it deserves to stand to show the ops true character.