Do you believe in God/a higher power?

[CuriousAboutWhatYouThink]

Not religion. I have no time for organised religion and the associated man made rules.

But do you believe in 'something'?

For context, my grandad was a CofE vicar but my parent rebelled against it and we were brought up broadly l in the religion (eg we celebrated main religious festivals like Easter and Christmas) but not as practising Christians and without a particular belief in God.

As an adult, I have friends of different faiths and none and it's something we have discussed from time to time. It's also something I used to discuss with my grandma who had a very strong belief in God but also believed the Bible until she became older when she still had a strong faith but admitted she thought the Bible was largely nonsense!

I suppose I've always felt that there is 'something' but I refer to it as the universe. I don't know, I always feel that there has been 'something' looking out for me.

That doesn't mean bad things have never happened because they have and religion/belief doesn't protect anyone from that. And it doesn't mean my life is anywhere near perfect because it's not. But the universe has always seemed to 'step in' when needed.

I don't know. I'm going through a tough time at the moment but I have a feeling everything will turn out to be OK because it always does.

I am a Muslim. And even as a Muslim I will tell you, those Christian priests who committed those heinous child abuse crimes didn’t do them because their religion told them too, but because they were not true Christians. They didn’t follow the bible or Jesus and they certainly did not have a fear of God in their hearts thus don’t think they actually believed in God, thus not true Christian. They may have most likely got that position through politics within the system. Again ‘politics’ is key here.
all these priests imams religious leaders are supposedly there to guide you if you need the help but ultimately it’s your connection with God, and you have scriptures, book, history and most importantly prayers, to decide what’s right for you and not.

No, god was something made up so brainwashed people had something to keep them going! There’s no man in the sky controlling the world

@KillMeMounjaro

There are people who still believe in the Roman, Greek, Norse, Egyptian deities, etc. Pagan polytheists, witches and occultists such as myself believe in the existence of all of those deities, as well as the gods and goddesses from other pantheons/religions.

I myself prayed to Roman Goddess Venus only yesterday.

The crux is that life is entirely random.

Yes, people can make choices that may increase the chances/risks of a happier/less happy life, but even then, random factors will always play a part.

I.e. even the most worthy person, who has done everything they can to live a good life, a healthy life, never done anyone any harm, can be struck down with a serious illness like cancer, that IS entirely random with no known causation factors.

Likewise some really horrible nasty people who live an unhealthy life make it through to 80 or 90 and die a "nice" death in their sleep of natural causes.

There is no "greater power" controlling things. The very idea is absurd.

Some people can't accept that some things really are just purely random, good and bad. Right from day 1, i.e. where you were born, your parents, your siblings, your school, your friends, your romantic partners, your jobs, your own children, etc. It's just entirely random.

If there was a god, why would he have even wanted to create the earth, people etc? What’s his motivation? What’s in it for him?

And most importantly, who would have created this god???

No. I dont believe in anything that can't be proved. I struggle with religious people and how fucked up the world is. Some divine being is watching over us yet children get cancer, women are raped, wars are waged and any other number of horrific things that happen on a daily basis.

If god exists ans allows these things to happen, well...

But that still makes no sense to me, because all this matter and energy, and time, still just spontaneously pops into existence.

It's the whole "something from nothing" that I just can't wrap my head around

Yeah but if there was no time, which scientists say is irrevocably entwined with space, that infinitely dense dot of energy would not have to have been created. It was just there eternally. Causation, change, beginnings and endings is an aspect within 3d space- time

Nope.

I think a belief in a higher power is something a lot of human brains have and need for comfort and to give them a reason for existing. It's part of the human condition. I seem to be missing that chip, but I have no problem with people who do believe so long as they don't try to convert me or expect their beliefs to trump mine just because theirs are based on a religion.

I do feel a connection to nature and I think most people feel 'better' when they are in tune with the seasons and spend a lot of time outside. Not a religion, just a natural connection to the earth and our surroundings.

I have a strong difference with this lack of respect.

I know the difference between an absence of evidence and the evidence of absence. A number of the arguments for atheism here are overlooking this.

I am an agnostic scientist with high respect for a well reasoned argument. Dr Francis Collins makes a strong one for God or god.

Dr Collins (MD-PhD) an Emeritus Director of the US National Institutes of Health and the person who directed the project to map the humane genome in the 1990s. He grew up nonreligious and seems to have come to religion partly through his work.

He is by no means the only highly esteemed scientist with a religious leaning.

I imagine few if any on this thread have reason to look down on the likes of Dr Collins

I know what you're saying. And this is truly what blows my mind - intelligent people with a belief in a higher power. I know there are quite a few of them and I find it astonishing.

Regardless I couldn't be in a relationship with any of them as I still couldn't respect that, in my opinion bonkers, belief.

I wouldn't look down on Collins but you can quite happily disagree with him. He himself admits that it's only possible to come to a belief in God due to blind faith.

Yes we just decompose into basic molecules which can then become something else - most of it not in an organic lifeform though. If a body is cremated then some of it will become carbon dioxide and water, some ash. If we’re buried - well, Ilkley Moor B’aht ‘At covers that pretty well.

Interesting.

I couldn’t be in a relationship with a bigot of any kind. That would include someone who practised religious intolerance. Differences of opinion don’t bother me

But something from something just pushes back where the previous something came from. Postulating a god is a heck of a ‘something’ from nothing.

@thecatneuterer

I think it just comes down to accepting that people have what they consider legitimate reasons for a personal belief and that others have legitimate reasons for non-belief.

I am a polytheist who believes in the existence of literally ALL gods and goddesses from all religious pantheons. I believe the Egyptian, Greek, Roman, Norse, African, Celtic, Slavic, Hindu, etc deities all exist, and I also believe the Abrahamic God exists (I just obviously don't accept the claim that he is the sole deity.)

Such inclusive polytheist beliefs are common amongst pagans, witches and occultists (I belong to all three communities.)

I have what I consider to be good reasons for my belief, but it makes sense for others not to believe.

Absolutely. And I have no issue with other people having beliefs - none whatsoever. I just don't want to be in a relationship with any of them.

Sure

@thecatneuterer

That's your right, of course, but let's say you fell hard for someone and started dating them, and later found out that they were, for example, a polytheist and practicing occultist. (It's not something that polytheists and occultists would necessarily speak about when meeting someone for the first time.)

Would you end the relationship on that basis?

@SorcererGaheris not that you asked me, but I'm going to pitch in anyway! 😁 I am fairly sure I would struggle to be in a romantic partnership with someone who was a polytheist and practicing occultist. It would mean that our world beliefs and values would be too different. I think it would become very clear really early in dating too. I doubt you would get that far down the line without that aspect of someone's life becoming apparent.

No and I don’t understand how anyone does, it defies logic

Interesting. I can't imagine it happening as that's a conversation I make sure I have very early on. I don't know much about occultism - it sounds possibly less mindlessly stupid than lots of religions. For example I'd be ok with Buddhism I think - less about higher powers and more about unlocking the potential of the self - I could probably learn something there. So to answer your question - I'm not sure, but I think it's unlikely to happen anyway.

(Or rather, it would have been unlikely to happen - I'm not dating anymore so it's definitely not going to happen!)

Yep.

I have never believed and certainly never will after my son was diagnosed with cancer last year.

If he's real then he can fuck right off as far as I'm concerned.

@MargoLivebetter

Your world beliefs would be different to theirs, but what makes you think their values would be any different? Being a polytheist and occultist doesn't imply anything about someone's values either way.

I do agree that it's something that would become clear pretty early in dating, but it's not something that would necessarily be apparent on first notice - and sometimes people do fall head over heels from almost the first moment.

@thecatneuterer

I suppose in your case, then, that scenario is unlikely to take place.

Occultism in itself is not a religion, but a diverse array of mystical, spiritual and magical practices and beliefs.

Astrology, witchcraft/magic, spirits and non-physical entities of all kinds, as well as every god and goddess under the sun have their place in occultism.

That's not to say that an individual occultist will be involved in all of those practices, there are so many and it's very diverse. This is just an idea of stuff that comes under the heading.

I will say that many, if not the majority, of occultists are polytheists. Interacting with fairies also falls under occultism.

If you have time and are interested, occultist and sorcerer Clifford Hartleigh Low gives a run-down of his life as a practitioner. He started practicing from a very early age, around 11 years old. His life has been fairly unique and unusual even by many occultists' standards, but it's an example of how at least some occultists think, believe and perceive and experience the world.