Do you believe in God/a higher power?

[CuriousAboutWhatYouThink]

Not religion. I have no time for organised religion and the associated man made rules.

But do you believe in 'something'?

For context, my grandad was a CofE vicar but my parent rebelled against it and we were brought up broadly l in the religion (eg we celebrated main religious festivals like Easter and Christmas) but not as practising Christians and without a particular belief in God.

As an adult, I have friends of different faiths and none and it's something we have discussed from time to time. It's also something I used to discuss with my grandma who had a very strong belief in God but also believed the Bible until she became older when she still had a strong faith but admitted she thought the Bible was largely nonsense!

I suppose I've always felt that there is 'something' but I refer to it as the universe. I don't know, I always feel that there has been 'something' looking out for me.

That doesn't mean bad things have never happened because they have and religion/belief doesn't protect anyone from that. And it doesn't mean my life is anywhere near perfect because it's not. But the universe has always seemed to 'step in' when needed.

I don't know. I'm going through a tough time at the moment but I have a feeling everything will turn out to be OK because it always does.

Well, not a big man in the sky, no;
but there are other possibilities.

@SorcererGaheris I realise that Occultism has a broad spectrum of beliefs but that fact that a potential partner believed in non-physical phenomena having some kind of sway over life does represent a very different value or core belief to my own. I just don't see how that would be compatible in day to day life.

@MargoLivebetter

Very different core belief, yes, but I don't see how it applies to values. I suppose it depends on what you're defining as a 'value', though.

I'm thinking of ethical/moral values, and being an occultist doesn't say anything about anyone's morals or ethics in any way.

Introducing a creator god doesn't resolve that conundrum though. If a god created the universe, from where did it get all the matter and energy? Out of nothing, or from somewhere else?

Yes, I will.

@SorcererGaheris I see my values as being made up of my guiding principles and core beliefs. As an atheist it would be really hard for me to form a romantic partnership with a practicing Occultist, because I don't believe in Occultism and therefore I don't believe in that other person's core beliefs and guiding principles. I think we would really, really struggle to be compatible.

Yes. I believe in God but, like you, am quite sceptical of organised religion. I think it has positives and negatives but it's flawed. But I believe in God but it's not an angry man on a cloud far away.
Julian of Norwich is a nice read/listen if you are looking for comfort. And you don't have to believe to find it helpful.

Thanks for wording that so well. I was struggling to put it into words.

Fair enough, I agree it’s more complicated, however religion was is significant part of it, certainly for some individuals. The thought of a Protestant and Catholic getting married would have caused uproar in some communities.

So how did ‘God’ create the world? Big ball of play-doh and an afternoon on his hands?

How can people believe in something that there is NO evidence of. As far as I’m aware, nobody has seen God or knows what he looks like.
When we have science explaining the creation of the universe, does that not put a stop to the “God created the world in 7 days” nonsense?

Belief in God has its time when people didn’t have the understanding of how they came to be. And fear of death became the need to believe in a Heaven.

All I’m going to say is, if there is a God, he’s frankly a bit of an arsehole. The race he has created spend most of their time trying to destroy one another, the earth he created has weather events that regularly kill people, he allows awful things to happen to innocent children… need I go on?

There is no God. Lets be honest.

@Pricelessadvice

There's no scientific evidence for any gods or goddesses, but believers such as myself (a polytheist who believes in the existence of all deities) believe on the basis of non-scientific forms of evidence. The reported experiences of other people, as well as our own experiences.

I don't expect people who haven't shared those experiences to believe, but I don't think it's unreasonable to base a belief on personal testimonies and on one's own personal experiences.

Do you mind if I ask for an example of something that has made you believe?

@Pricelessadvice

No, I don't mind.

One thing that has made me believe are the reported experiences of the others in my communities - pagans, witches and occultists.

They talk about having experiences that they interpret/believe to be with various deities, and I see no reason to question their interpretation.

As for my own experiences - there have been occasions when I have prayed to a particular deity and then meditated so as to perceive communication from them. I've experienced words/phrases popping into my head that feel very different to when it's clearly my own personal thoughts/consciousness. So I interpret those as experiencing a communication with the deity in question.

All of these are subjective personal experiences, so I certainly don't expect atheists to believe. I just think it's perfectly reasonable for theists to believe based on our own experiences and other people's.

But those are people more ‘primed’ to be believers because they are part of those communities.

For me I find a ghost sighting story far less convincing when it’s told by someone who I know is a firm believer in ghosts and the supernatural. If I get told a ghost sighting story by someone I know who normally has no time for that sort of stuff, then I feel it’s slightly more credible.

You can get anyone to confirm your beliefs if you look in the right places.

@CuriousAboutWhatYouThink I don't believe there is an all powerful man with long hair sitting on the clouds looking down on us as 'His Children'. However I do believe there is 'something' - like many PP I struggle to 'believe' the Bible any more, written as it was by men and interpreted and translated so many times the original text and meaning must have been lost. Its only a historical recollection and as with everything, recollections may vary

I do think that the sense of dissatisfaction that is prevalent in society these days and the downturn in the number of people who follow a faith, any faith, are connected. I think the almost compulsory attendances at church on a Sunday brought people together in a way they just aren't any more.

My father (80) attends Church every week (C of E) and when asked why he always says it just half an hour when he gets to just sit and 'be'. Be quiet, be focussed, be thankful, recite a set of words that are written for him and it gives him strength to go on for another week.

Nope. I don't believe in anything really. No mythical creatures, or ghosts or spirits. I also reject that we have souls.

I kinda "get" paganism though. Not the spiritual side, but the fact it's rooted in nature, and that it stems from what people observe from their world and know to be true. At a very vase level, I'd argue pagans are the original scientists.

Quite a few of the earlier scientists (using the UK, for example) were knee-deep in occultism and mysticism.

It's not mentioned much, but Isaac Newton was a passionate alchemist.

Isn’t that just your imagination?

No, not really.

This may well be inviting different views but I think people who do believe in God, on the whole, tend to be nicer people than those who don't. Excluding child abusing priests/ clergy people etc of course. If it was possible to find an average person who does and an average person who doesn't.

Exactly, that was my point in the post before the one you quoted. I can't comprehend the idea that something came out of nothing.

But the idea of a god just kicks the can down the road. If I can't comprehend the universe appearing from nothing , then a god fixes that. But it then creates the problem of, did the god just come from nothing? Nope, can't comprehend that either, so something must have created the god, and so on and so on and so on.

It's either turtles all the way down, or the universe just popped into existence for no bloody reason at all. And neither of those things make any bloody sense to me

Absolutely not.

Honestly, if there was a god they're either so malevolent and cruel they are happy to cause/allow immense, unjust suffering, or they're so inept and useless they can do nothing about it.

I find it bonkers that otherwise intelligent people can believe fairytales like they're real.

Not in my experience. Some of the most awful people I've met have been the most religious. One is even some sort of lay preacher or something. You really couldn't meet a more unpleasant woman.

@RememberBeKindWithKaren that is quite the declaration. Religious people are nicer than non-religious people! I don't know the faith of most people I come into contact with and even if I did, just because someone claims to be of a certain faith, it doesn't mean they are true believers. I'm not sure many of my CofE friends have the first idea what they believe in or what the religious tenants of their faith are. Most of them haven't been inside a church (other than for Christmas carols, weddings and funerals) for decades. I wonder how the women of Afghanistan would feel about religious people being nicer than non-religious people as they see all their freedoms removed by the ultra-religious Taliban. Much to ponder indeed!

I think you get lovely and awful people in all walks of life across faiths/no faiths etc etc…

I do wound about altruism, regarding those that do good, because they fear the wrath of god if they don’t. It could be argued they are nice for their own gain (a place in heaven!) as oppose to being a non religious person, who is nice and does good deeds simply because they want to and not because they need to….that’s more genuine.

I guess the outcome is still the same, ie a nice person, but the motive is different!

I'm sorry, OP. I think the universe is a totally morally random entity. It's not a completely random entity because it's run on rules discovered by Newton and Einstein and others, but it's morally random.

I think this is the hardest thing for we humans to bear. I'd almost rather believe in some kind of evil force than have to accept that - no-one cares. We're all just particles for a while and those particles will go elsewhere when we die.

We only have one life. I'm a tough old boot but I do shed a tear at that song from the animated film version of Charlotte's Web, where Charlotte sings 'How lucky are we, for just a moment to be, part of life's eternal rhyme'

That's what I believe, so live your life to the full. When we die we do live on - in the hearts and minds of people who knew us. My mum died 12 years ago but I hear her voice all the time in my head and I know exactly what she'd say in every situation! She lives on in my children's memories too - we talk about her and other family members who are no longer here - and will only die when everyone who knew her is gone too.