Do you believe in God/a higher power?

[CuriousAboutWhatYouThink]

Not religion. I have no time for organised religion and the associated man made rules.

But do you believe in 'something'?

For context, my grandad was a CofE vicar but my parent rebelled against it and we were brought up broadly l in the religion (eg we celebrated main religious festivals like Easter and Christmas) but not as practising Christians and without a particular belief in God.

As an adult, I have friends of different faiths and none and it's something we have discussed from time to time. It's also something I used to discuss with my grandma who had a very strong belief in God but also believed the Bible until she became older when she still had a strong faith but admitted she thought the Bible was largely nonsense!

I suppose I've always felt that there is 'something' but I refer to it as the universe. I don't know, I always feel that there has been 'something' looking out for me.

That doesn't mean bad things have never happened because they have and religion/belief doesn't protect anyone from that. And it doesn't mean my life is anywhere near perfect because it's not. But the universe has always seemed to 'step in' when needed.

I don't know. I'm going through a tough time at the moment but I have a feeling everything will turn out to be OK because it always does.

If you feel inclined to do so, let me know what you think of some of those videos I directed you to. (You may end up having to send me a PM, as this thread may well be closed by then.)

I definitely will! I've got a busy weekend ahead of me but I will certainly find time to watch at least one of the videos to get me started

Do you believe in Yahweh ?

I believe that all gods and goddesses from all pantheons and religions exist.

So yes, I believe that Yahweh exists, but I believe he is just one of many deities.

Absolutely not.

If there is such a thing then what an epic cunt they must be.

Why would a higher power look out for you just because you ask nicely, but not dying kids in Gaza/Yemen/any other war zone? Why would a higher power allow the tsetse fly? If there is a higher power then I absolutely despise their priorities.

One of the reasons why I don’t believe in any gods or so called higher powers as they all (apart from being in someone’s imagination) seem to be cruel, discriminatory and don’t do anything to make the world a better place.

@VikingLady

I am a pagan polytheist (believe in the existence of ALL gods and goddesses) so to answer your question from the philosophical underpinnings of polytheism:

In pagan polytheism, the gods and goddesses are not considered to be all-knowing or all-powerful, nor are they considered to be all-loving or to universally care about all of humanity.

In pagan polytheism, the idea of reciprocity and building relationships is very important (with all kinds of spirits and entities, not just gods and goddesses.)

Basically (in pagan polytheist philosophy) deities won't just dive in and help us out of the goodness of their hearts. Some may not even be aware of who we are unless we approach them first.

The idea in pagan polytheism is that deities (as well as other spirits) will be more inclined to help you if you have taken the time to develop a bit of a relationship with them, or at least give them some offerings in return for what you want their help with.

Deities, as well as other spirits, will have more interest and concern with people who are investing time and have a 'give and take' attitude towards them. They won't necessarily be interested in helping people with whom they have no relationship and nothing to do.

@Parker231

In pagan polytheism, deities are understood to be "discriminatory" in the sense that they are more inclined to help people with whom they have an established relationship. It's the reason that developing relationships, as well as the concept of reciprocity (giving things in return) is so important, not just for deities but for other spirits.

In pagan polytheist philosophy, the deities are not all-loving and will not necessarily feel inclined to step in and help people with whom they have zero relationship. Many will not want to bother or particularly care.

Pagan polytheists do not view deities as all-powerful or all-knowing, either. Deities, in our philosophy, have limits to their abilities. They do not have the power to prevent mass suffering of humanity and are not necessarily of aware of everything that's happening.

So people worship a thing which is probably unlikely to help them or do anything good for mankind?

@Parker231

I can only speak for pagan polytheists - we actively build relationships and give offerings to the deities that we wish to help us.

So WE personally honour deities who are more likely to try to help us, because we have put in the effort to build a relationship and give them gifts for their efforts.

@SorcererGaheris I suppose my question is, how are they Gods or Goddesses if they're not able to intervene and prevent or help suffering? And why do they need you to provide them with sacrifices before they can be bothered to help?

The way you describe them makes them sound rather uncaring and unpleasant, especially towards people who grow up unaware of them through no fault of their own.

So basically you have to pay them/bribe them to help you?

@thisishowloween

Your presumption here is that an entity can only be a god or goddess if they have the ability to prevent mass human suffering. But that is not the case in polytheist philosophy.

The idea that a deity must be all-powerful and all-knowing is a monotheist idea.

Polytheist philosophy views the deities differently. Deities do not need to be all-powerful or all-knowing or all-loving in order to qualify as deities.

I think unpleasant is too harsh of a term to use in this respect, because the deities aren't actually harming or threatening harm to people who don't believe in them or are unaware of them. The deities are simply disinterested and do not particularly care about them.

My question would be - why SHOULD the deities care about people with whom they have no relationship?

If there's an expectation that deities MUST be all-loving, omni-benevolent and all-caring towards all of humanity, then that is coming from monotheist Christian philosophy which many atheists in the West have naturally absorbed.

But like I said, the pagan polytheist view of deities is very different. You're discussing the nature of deities based on monotheist Christian terms, which are not terms that apply to the pagan polytheist understanding of deities.

@thisishowloween

I think at the outset that can often (but not always) be the case. But once the relationship is developed, then I do think deities might look to help the people with whom they've established a relationship of their own accord.

But I think it's understandable for deities (as well as other spirits) to expect some level of reciprocity and appreciation.

The same is true of humans - many humans are much more likely to give assistance (especially a significant level of assistance) to people they already know and care about, than perfect strangers.

If a stranger asks me to give them £100, I'm almost certainly going to refuse. If a friend or family member asks, I'll probably say yes.

So basically unless you worship them and reward them, they aren’t going to look out for you? They don’t do good things just because it’s the right thing to do.

@SorcererGaheris so they're just random beings who occasionally help out people who've offered them things, then.

You ask why they should care about people with whom they have no relationship - but if people don't know about them, they can't ask them for help. So they're essentially not arsed about anyone who isn't fortunate enough to have discovered them and who isn't able to provide them with gifts.

If it's the same as the relationship you have with other humans, how are they deities in the first place? How are people supposed to know about them form a relationship?

If they're not all knowing or all powerful, what are they? And why are they considered deities?

I have my understanding of the gods from buddhism. They live very long (thousands of years) luxurious lives of their own with each other in perfect health until they are close to death. The demigods are often at war with each other and the imperfection in that realm is of pride and envy.

For these conditions it is why tibetans say the human life is most valuable, because there is a more balanced sense of good and bad, happiness and suffering and without being distracted by either too much suffering or too much pleasure we have a higher chance of attaining enlightenment

No.

If there is a god, he's either cruel and allows babies to get incurable painful diseases; or, he's not omnipotent, ergo not a god.

I'm surprising myself here, but I actually agree with your final paragraph. If my partner, parents, son or someone else I'm close to asked for money, I would likely give it to them (if it is within my means). If a random stranger (you, for example (no offense)) was to ask me for money, I'd more than likely say no because I don't know you and haven't formed a bond or relationship with you.

That's not to say that relationships should be built on anything other than respect and love and dedication, but part of the dedication for Pagan gods (again, sorry if I used the wrong word!) is showing that you respect and love them by giving them gifts or similar. Is that right?

Edited to add: I haven't written my comment very well because my brain is running on the power of croissants, but I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.

Good questions.

And why would this ‘god’ not want to help innocent children born into war zones? Or those dying of cancer?

Why would he give preferential treatment to rapists or even murderers who ‘worship’ him?

I’d love to hear what those worshipping such a Christian god have to say? I’m genuinely curious.

I’m genuinely curious.

Are you really?

The last time I responded to such questions, posed by another poster, truthfully - by saying that I couldn't answer them because I did not know the mind of God - I got pilloried.
I was told that my answer (or non-answer) wasn't good enough and wasn't logical.

I can only give you the same answer.

Well, seeing you have that all sorted out logically, you don't need to engage any more do you? 🙂

@GarlicBreadStan

That's not to say that relationships should be built on anything other than respect and love and dedication, but part of the dedication for Pagan gods (again, sorry if I used the wrong word!) is showing that you respect and love them by giving them gifts or similar. Is that right?

I'd say that it's a fair enough statement. It's basically the idea that if we want, or expect, a deity or other entity to do something for us or help us, then we need to give them something in exchange, rather than except them to work for free. And we need to put effort into building a mutually respectful relationship because a spiritual entity (as we see it) is going to be more likely to help us if we have built that relationship.

No, I don't believe in any God at all.