To finally agree with a junior doctors strike

[Horsehow]

Junior doctors have decided to strike as they are being overlooked for jobs / training posts which are instead given to international applicants. I’ve always abhorred their money grabbing strikes in the past, but support this one 100%. UK doctors should be recruited where possible, and international graduates only turned to where we cannot find a suitable recruit in the UK.

https://www.bma.org.uk/bma-media-centre/first-year-doctors-in-england-vote-overwhelmingly-in-support-of-strike-action-over-jobs

Just to make absolutely clear: this is only F1s who were invited to vote. 65% responded. They’ve only been working ten or so weeks - even if they did strike, that would have no/ minimal impact. This is a toothless exercise by the BMA and will bring no weight to bear in negotiations with the government.

A lot of consultants in competitive specialties have taken time out to complete a PhD. It’s hardly a wacky suggestion. If you’re sufficiently good, you’ll get funding.

Can I re-iterate that I don’t wish to engage with any posters who can’t adhere to the MN guidelines. I’m merely stating two uncontroversial facts.

Isn't part of the problem the pay scale?

So if junior doctors go up everyone's pay goes up?

As you know my son is not a consultant. He has just finished ST2 so your suggestion is comical. You thought UKMGs should do PhDs to gain extra points rather that reducing numbers of IMGs applying to specialty training.

Newly qualified doctors going straight to PhD would make me suspicious that clinically they are not up to scratch and should have gone the science degree route to research.

You are exaggerating again.

The clinically weak may decide to go PhD route straight out of medical school. Either encouraged to or have enough self awareness that they would struggle as a doctor.

A lot of regs do PhD when they have a specialty training post. Doubt there are many F1/F2 doing a PhD as would not be in specialty training and no guarantee they would get specialty training in their chosen area.

Yes. They are public sector employees with a chance of redundancy of about zero, a vast average career earning and a huge pension. Why would doctors need more money?

They do however need jobs and not to be constantly overlooked by international graduates. The UK is one of the few countries that offer opportunities to overseas candidates and so people flock here. The BMA is right to have a grievance about this. Its pay demands on the other hand are just pathetic.

I’ve made it very clear that it’s overwhelmingly those who have completed the initial stages of specialty training who go sideways.

It’s a route for the more ambitious for sure, and for the academically more able (full funding isn’t dished out by funding agencies without them being satisfied that the applicant is worth it).

There’s every reason why the academically more able will also be the clinically more able. Those are the ones likely to find the career path to consultant relatively smooth.

Academically able does not always translate to clinically able. A good doctor also needs to be able to use soft skills.

I haven’t followed this but it does seem madness if we use o/s people instead of those trained here and they find it hard to get a position.

There has been a cohort of "consultants" that argue it is reasonable system to have 63% of specialty training applications from IMGs. A few of them post in a very similar style.

They make it clear how little respect they have for UKMGs and UK medical education to the point that it looksi like there is a hidden agenda.

So weird that people have so little respect for UK Grads when every other country in the world actively tries to recruit our doctors. And why would so many people want to come and work here if our training is so 'inferior' ? Just weird.

It’s not inferior, and the students making onto courses face tough competition. There’s no reason for it.

But jokers like Sevillian think that is ok. The ridiculous argument s/he puts forward is very derogatory towards UKMGS and UK medical training.

You need to look into attacking the position, not the person. At present there are three posters ganging up on one.

Yes. And I’ve already made the stunningly obvious point that those who are top of the tree on the academic front may very well also be at the top of the tree on the soft skills front. For starters, it helps patients significantly if they feel the doctor in question knows exactly what they’re talking about….

Can I underline the fact that very little of what I post on this subject is a joke.

(I did tease a bit with inky, I’ll give you that, but no more than that).

There is history with this user on different threads. A lot of unpleasant posts. There is no point trying to reason with their position on this as they believe UKMGS are sub-standard unless they went to Oxford or Cambridge and UK medical education is not fit for purpose.

Look at their posts on other threads especially the attacks on @mumsneedwine

You know you come across as really childish posting things like this? Like a mean girls club with a membership of 2.
Posting like this will not keep people reading and thus becoming informed of any issues affecting competition for training posts.

It is up to the individual to decide what they think is funny/ridiculous.

Your posts fit that category in my opinion.

I have. I don't see what you see.