To finally agree with a junior doctors strike

[Horsehow]

Junior doctors have decided to strike as they are being overlooked for jobs / training posts which are instead given to international applicants. I’ve always abhorred their money grabbing strikes in the past, but support this one 100%. UK doctors should be recruited where possible, and international graduates only turned to where we cannot find a suitable recruit in the UK.

That is the way it used to be until Boris Johnson abolished The Resident Labour Market Test in January 2020.

Since then there has been an annual increase of IMG applications for specialty training. For 2025 it was 20,802 (63%) and the numbers this year are believed to be far worse.

We are the only country that does not prioritise our own medical graduates.

Exactly this was how it was before Boris Johnson abolished The Resident Labour Market Test.

All the Labour government has to do is reinstate The Resident Labour Market Test.

@SevillianI’m interested in why you wouldn’t be for this, if you’re not that is

This thread is completely mental!

First, Sevillian I'm sorry that you have taken the flak all morning for something I said. I will not be quoting individual posts with complaints about me, life is too short.

I called mumsneedwine ' the old one 'because she and her chum persistently called me 'the new one' and I think have continued to do so. Sauce, goose, gander etc.

'He has until December' to me implies a threat, i.e that something will happen if he doesn't comply by then. If you don't see it that way perhaps you don't have much idea of nuance.

I completely get that you are absolutely furious that you haven't got your own way but constantly repeating your silly figures is obviously getting you nowhere. Maybe 63 % of applications for training were from IMG 's, but 63% of appointments were not. That is what counts. Some UK graduates will have missed out on training, that has always happened. It is not somehow more of a scandal because you didn't know that it could happen. It's just something else that you didn't know, like consultant surgeons being called Mr and consultant physicians Dr. (There are so many more examples of things you don't know, but again life is too short.)

I don't know how you propose to clear immigrant workers from the NHS. If they can't apply for training positions then I imagine that they will come at undergraduate level, and so become British graduates. The University sector would collapse of they were not allowed to take foreign students and their high fees. How would you propose sorting that one?

Someone suggested that doctors will be unemployed and claiming benefits. That is totally ridiculous, they have science degrees and will find alternative employment. Some of them, in the end, will have to do that anyway as we are training five times more doctors than we ultimately need.

Perhaps calm down a bit. You'll all have heart attacks and there won't be a doctor to help you if they're all out on their picket lines again.

Sorry aimed at @Scotiasdarling

Hrtft

But hard agree with the op

I'm the furthest thing from Farage and his reform lot

But how are we supposed to be a proud country if we do not prioritise British graduates for roles in our struggling NHS??

Unfortunately on this thread wanting to go back to the situation in 2019 where the UK prioritised its own medical graduates has resulted in mention of xenophobia.

@PurpleFairyLights 2 good things already happened for this year. Can only apply for 5 specialities - UKGs average 1.3 but IMGs often use the scatter gun approach and can do 18 (average 6.2 I think). This will help.

Also IMT giving 5 points if only apply to IMT. Things are a changing.

@Scotiasdarling please show me where I have called you the 'new one' ? I'll wait

No one has said anything about 'clearing migrant workers from the NHS'. Where does this made up stuff come from ! Giving priority from now for UKGs does not mean everyone has to leave. What a bizarre thought.

Farage must be drooling at some of the hatred of UK staff on here.

UKGs are doctors who qualify here (including those international ones who pay huge fees and keep Unis open according to @Scotiasdarling). If they are going to get jobs here easier or cheaper by studying in their own countries and coming here as IMGs then they will. Causing the collapse of the UK uni sector (again, according to scotia).

So advocating for UKGs (wherever they were born) is the best way forward.

@mumsneedwine i used the term the new one because it was a new pro-IMG poster. There is usually around 2-4 active on the threads and I lose track of them.

These tyoe of statements are odd but concerning as new readers of the thread may actually believe it if they do not have time or inclination to read all the posts.

Agree no one has ever mentioned "cleating migrant workers from the NHS"

Mumsneedwine you should read carefully before you post. I will try to explain to you. At the moment international graduates can legally come here and get employment. I said that if they can't do that and really want to work here they will come as undergraduates, graduate here and be UK graduates. It may be cheaper in their home countries, but many foreign students do come here and many more will do if and when the cheaper route isn't available.

And yes, universities really do need the higher levels of fees paid by foreign students. I would have thought as the fount of all knowledge on universities you would know that.

Someone (Marchesman?) upthread noted that social media magnified the Dunning Kruger effect. That, added to the shocking fact that the average reading age of a British adult is somewhere between 9 and 11 years explains why reading this thread sometimes feels like picking through bins.

I'm surprised, I think that prioritising British people (of any ethnicity) for things like nhs and govt jobs, housing etc is just common sense

No-one should be saying that the existing non british workers should be ousted, but that from now on things change 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

@Scotiasdarling so you agree with me that giving priority to UKGs is good. That's good. Because if we don't they'll stop coming here to train. There are limits on the number of places for international students already. Surely you know that as a fountain of all knowledge ? Won't effect UK born students at all.

Again, the insults once they don't agree. Apparently I have a reading age of 9 😂.

Still waiting for an explanation as to why you think anyone is advocating for 'clearing out' the NHS. Or was that just made up ?

It’s a hard thread to get answers due to so much of this. But I am interested in why reinstating the policy @PurpleFairyLightsmentioned is a bad thing.

Rather than the insults, for those against to make a case

mumsneedwine this is what scotiasdarling actually said: '....the shocking fact that the average reading age of a British adult is somewhere between 9 and 11 years explains why reading this thread sometimes feels like picking through bins'

This is what you said she said: 'Again, the insults once they don't agree. Apparently I have a reading age of 9 😂' And that was less than thirty minutes later.

Arguably you're rather illustrating the point.

And please, affect, not effect.

I think read back to see what almost every consultant has written.

Unfortunately the pro-IMG posters never answer that question properly. Instead they represent UKMG and UK medical education as deficient in some way.

There are also 2-3 other threads on this topic.

That’s a shame. If there’s a compelling argument to convince people it should be easy to put forward.

The "consultants" are all pro-IMG so hardly a fair representation.

People have already spent a lot of time and effort posting. I think it's somewhat unreasonable to expect them to repeat it purely for your own convenience.