To finally agree with a junior doctors strike

[Horsehow]

Junior doctors have decided to strike as they are being overlooked for jobs / training posts which are instead given to international applicants. I’ve always abhorred their money grabbing strikes in the past, but support this one 100%. UK doctors should be recruited where possible, and international graduates only turned to where we cannot find a suitable recruit in the UK.

Back to the argument that UKGs don't get jobs because they are not competent. So 52% of F2s this year were apparently incompetent. Really don't understand why consultants are not demanding change then.
Obviously this is not why they are not getting jobs. It's the insane number of people applying.

Exactly. Beggers belief that anyone cannot see this for themselves.

There is no evidence that 52% of FY2s are not in work - significant numbers did not apply for a further training post. No one is saying they are incompetent but you do ahve to apply to have a chance and success or rejection.

Purple - i have seen many ST1/2s with good reference and ticked the boxes but does not always mean they are ready to progress in so many of the NOTS aspects of assessment. I am sure your son will progress and his extra year will actually be of benefit to him when he does and he will find the progression much less stressful.

There is so much mixing of stats and extrapolating to fit grievances by people here.

All the trainees in my speciality who have started as ST3 are UK graduates - this is not an isolated occurrence. have they all progressed from ST2 - no but that is not necessarily wrong.

From the BMA

No doubt another meaningless survey from a ludicrously small sample alongside other flaws in the methodology.

This is not a meaningless survey.

Well given how often the numbers on these photoshots have been demolished in terms of having the meaning asserted, I wouldn’t be that confident.

A light scratch of the surface and they all seem to collapse.

They are NHSE figures. Whose would you like to quote.

Unfortunately, the figures are so shocking that some cannot believe they are true. People denying the statistics should read the room. The numbers are unsustainable and will cause problems.

In fact, Tom Swarbrick on LBC covered this and was shocked that 63% of applicants for specialty training were IMGs while we have unemployed UKMGs.

mumsneedwine the headline figures that you’ve been selectively quoting since the early part of the year have been deconstructed so many times that it’s quite mesmerising that you haven’t yet managed to take any of the explanations in.

Because the 'explanations' offered are wrong. Every time. Competition ratios are published. Number of IMGs are published (above 55% for all specialities this year). Doctors unemployed ? Government don't want to publish those figures, so they are currently being collated by others so they can be published asap.
Not sure how anyone can't see the issue of having vast numbers of UKGs employed. Weird. As always.

The bias towards IMGs and the lack of respect for UKMGs is a concern.

The data may be easier to understand in this format

Evidently not.

This is (part of) fig. 22 "Doctors joining the UK workforce, by route to joining, 2012–2023" from the GMC workforce report for 2024 (https://www.gmc-uk.org/-/media/documents/somep-workforce-report-2024-full-report_pdf-109169408.pdf). ; and it shows that increasing numbers of IMGs have had no effect on the number of UK medical graduates entering the workforce.

As you are familiar with this document you will also know that the number of UK graduates entering the workforce is already four or five times greater than the number of doctors retiring each year, so that most will eventually be obliged to find a different line of work.

(You will also know, despite your incessant complaint that IMGs have stolen their jobs, that more than half of F2 doctors do not apply to core or specialty training at the end of F2.)

https://www.gmc-uk.org/-/media/documents/somep-workforce-report-2024-full-report_pdf-109169408.pdf

Page 5 - 68% of doctors joining GMC register in 2023 were IMGs....

Why are people fighting this so hard ? The facts are out there. UK trained and paid for staff are unemployed. We are employing IMGS from some red list counties instead. This is silly, a waste of tax payers money and slightly immoral. Young people who trained here took on debt assuming they'd have a job. And these people come from all countries but chose to study and train in the UK.

Why would anyone not think fully trained, highly competent UK doctors shouldn't get priority for jobs ? All v strange, I always think you need to follow the 💰 when things look weird.

There is something very off about all of this

In what sense?

Sorry what does IMG mean?

International Medical Graduate

Thanks @PurpleFairyLights

That we have a few people defending the status quo where UK medical graduates are unemployed while the UK still allows international medical graduates to apply on preferential terms for UK NHS specialty training.

Yes, I don’t agree with it. I have next door neighbours who are “IMGs” they admitted to us that they’re only here to complete their training and then they wish to leave. Anecdotal I know, but it made me cross.