Thread 18: To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film?

[DisappointedReader]

Hello all. I've simplified the opening post as I don't think we need to keep reposting all the links, timelines and so on at this stage of proceedings.

The Observer's original exposé: The real Salt Path: how a blockbuster book and film were ...
First thread: To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film? | Mumsnet
Links to threads 2-16, the other 20 Observer articles and videos to date, Raynor Winn/Sally Walker's statement, our timeline and sources can all be accessed in the OP and first few posts of Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5403285-thread-17-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

New posters joining us in the genuine spirit of our civil discourse are welcome. It would be helpful to get the background from at least some of the Observer exposé items before posting.
To all - Please be extremely cautious when it comes to naming or implicating people and addresses not in the public eye or with no direct connection to the story, and around the understandable health speculations, especially where details are unclear or still emerging. Remember, even Hollywood rabbits attract the odd flea. Please do not engage with drive-by scolders who seem to have their own agenda and seek to derail. Avoid @'ing and quoting them as - from experience - this will only encourage them back to the threads. We have done amazingly well together for 17 very interesting, very serious and very silly threads so far. I can't be here as much as I'd like so all help with keeping our discussion walking along in our usual reasonable and respectful fashion is very welcome.

Now three months in, if these threads could wear slogan t-shirts they would be Mark Twain's often misquoted 'The report of my death was an exaggeration'. Applications in writing from correspondents seeking supply parcels of fudge and cider will be tolerated.

Here we are again
Disappointed as can be
All good pals and jolly good company
Strolling round the path
Happy on a spree
All good pals and jolly good company

Never mind the weather, never mind the rain
Now that we're together, whoops we go again!
Whoops, we go again
La-di-da-di-da, la-di-da-di-dee
All good pals and jolly good company

Keep to the path. No saltiness. May the fudge and cider be with you.

@PullTheBricksDown And of course you do pay someone tens of thousands of pounds when you're innocent of theft, because LOOK, A TOURIST STUFFING THEIR FACE AND LETTING THEIR DOG MISBEHAVE. Where was I again?

First of all, that's simply hilarious.

Secondly, I'm glad you've mentioned misbehaving dogs again. I was a bit miffed to have missed out on the recent posts re: derogatory dog comments.

Re: @izzywizzyletsgetbizzywynthomas excellent comments about appropriation of SA and the SWCP. I wanted to mention 500 Mile Walkies by Mark Wallington - again. Well, it's in the title really - Mark borrows a dog to walk the SWCP, for company, in the 80s. SalRay tells us this is her inspiration - but I don't think she mentions it again .... except that she does ... everywhere.

I still have my list of appropriated paragraphs, that I compiled. But, of course, it is full of Boogie's encounters with other dogs in a way that makes sense - in that book.

I love that book. and Boogie down the River. Humour correctly used, in my opinion.

Interesting Q&A piece with Chloe H

https://gijn.org/stories/scandal-publishing-world-interview-chloe-hadjimatheou

Thanks. This is what I took from this interview:

I didn’t feel there was enough for a series early on, so I published the initial story in the newspaper, and then a lot of people approached me afterwards, and they’re still approaching me. Lots more has come out since the publication, which was what we hoped. We felt that there was [enough for] an episode; it’s still a discussion about whether or not there’s a series there.

I have read before that they didn't have enough to do more. I also spoke to someone, who had been interviewed before, who said there was going to be a BBC podcast. It is still up and running .....

@toooom “well, i don't think the reporter had any documents about the alleged embezzlement--no charges were ever filed. and raynor winn did post medical records that show her husband was, indeed, treated for corticobasal degeneration. so i'd say the truth is back in Winn's court. we'll see how the Observer responds.”

For a journalist she seems to miss a couple of major points:

1. SW mentioned but did deny embezzlement
2. the medical letters don't tally with the TSP timeliness.

BUT most interestingly, in comments under the Landlines book post, Laurie writes: 'I believe she's working on a fourth memoir, this one about rebuilding the farm in Wales back when they were young marrieds'

Thanks for the great Chloe H article @SimoArmo

This was somebody who had met the couple and spent time with them, and was concerned that they weren’t being honest about the health condition.

and

But what this person who gave me the tipoff also gave me was the real names of this couple.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who wonders who this Deep Throat is. I'd speculate Bill C but not sure if they'd have let him know their real names.

He paid them a small wage so he would have had to know their real names

I'm still here, just managing to keep up again, so many more interesting posts. I have just read the piece @SimoArmo kindly posted, CH comes across as very fair with hopefully more to report. I wonder who the person that tipped CH is too @Uricon2probably Bill C as he had seen through them and felt he had been deliberately deceived.

Yes, that made me think it must be Bill, again. I did, at first, because they had an arrangement where they paid a peppercorn rent and he gave them a small wage. So he would have known their bank account names.

Others, on here, then pointed out that the 'informer' knew about the Welsh town. So, as Chloe says in the interview (we have just read above) she went to Wales. This was published about that:

Another source close to the Walkers also disputed the book’s interpretation of events, saying that their relatives felt “betrayed and angry” when the embezzlement claims emerged.
The source said the family felt bitter about the book misrepresenting their lives. “It seems to me that everything has been twisted,” they said. “You will reap what you sow eventually. You’re trying to pull the wool over people’s eyes.
“You’ve delicately built a house of cards and now it’s come tumbling down. What were you expecting to happen?”

So I went from Bill - to someone who was closer to them and had known them for longer.

Ah... that could explain it. He certainly had reason to doubt their veracity after the whole Mothtim "breaking down" plans + Christmas episode.

@RainyTuesdaysAndSunnyWednesdays @Uricon2 Snap!

I agree @BeguiledBrandy that the person who allerted Chloe, could have been any number of people that Raymoth have stitched up or deceived in the past, you would expect that one of those people would eventually talk. The only reason I think it might be Bill, is that his story after RH's, carried the most detail about Raymoth. Someone else prepared to put them forward for investigation, might have had another tale of deceit for Chloe to tell.

Among the tip-off speculations, which I think are all possible, I don't think anyone has mentioned Julie & Dave. They may have started to have ever growing doubts as the years went on...I know I would. Whoever it was, it seems likely that it was the film promotion that is what pushed them to talk.

Do we know/suspect that Julie and Dave knew their real names?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/GoodHousekeepingBookRoom/posts/4137027593253358/

Good question. If we assume Dave and Julie are made up names and that they were genuinely friends then it's plausible they discussed real names with each other at somepoint. Also, they went to Iceland so there would be a risk Raymoth's true names might be revealed at passport control or paying with bank cards etc. We can't know, but it's possible J&D did know the true names.

For true 'oneness with nature' - I know the ideal couple to nominate for this:

Bardsey Island off Welsh coast looks for new tenants - BBC News

Yes @SimoArmo If Dave and Julie are even real, we don't know if they exist and if they do they might not be called Dave and Julie. And if they are real and as @RainyTuesdaysAndSunnyWednesdays questions, would they know Raymoth's real names. The film being released could have sparked another unknown persons jealousy and that motivated the tip off, but I think CH said that the person who allerted her had spent time with Raymoth and they didn't believe Moth health was portrayed honestly.

It sounds ideal for them @BeguiledBrandy , in so many ways.

No Pissed off Poet Laureates, Irritated Illustrators, Canny Chloes and of course us lot welcome!

They can commune with the sheep to their hearts content, only I feel a bit sorry for the sheep as I do not think they'd have a clue what to do for them really.

Could be a number of people, from someone in Wales who recognised them, to a course-mate of Moth or a local in Polruan. I don’t know if BC would have gone to CH, but perhaps his mate who was the witness to the ‘don’t plan beyond Christmas’ statement?

That's a very good point @DoubtfulCat the friend of BC was very upset when he witnessed what BC was being put through, BC could have been persuaded to talk to CH after an initial tip off from the friend.

There are photos of J&D at the Thames Path PSPA fundraiser and in Iceland. Unless Raymoth lied to PSPA that they were "the" J&D and lied in the deleted IG post of Iceland, I think it's more likely they do exist but have different names as with every other person in the books.

Fascinating piece. Investigative journalists have to be tenacious and have an instinct for a genuine story and discard the tips that are malicious. It would have been easy for Chloe H. to give up early on but she persisted. The still anonymous source is intriguing but the article says that Chloe said it was someone who knew about the illness; presumably they had doubts about it.

Yes I agree @SimoArmo that some people do exist, there was some doubt in earlier threads, as to whether the couples photographed were even the same couples. Oh my goodness this is getting confusing, could two different couples (or one) have agreed to be labelled as Dave and Julie, to protect their identities, that would make sense, they might feel now it makes them culpable to the whole thing and of course they could be.

I think it's quite probable that "Dave and Julie" are not their real names, TBH.

Raymoth seem to have a gift for extreme obfuscation and concealment when it suits, as it clearly didn't in the case of mentioning Our Simon at every possible and far fetched opportunity.