Thread 18: To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film?

[DisappointedReader]

Hello all. I've simplified the opening post as I don't think we need to keep reposting all the links, timelines and so on at this stage of proceedings.

The Observer's original exposé: The real Salt Path: how a blockbuster book and film were ...
First thread: To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film? | Mumsnet
Links to threads 2-16, the other 20 Observer articles and videos to date, Raynor Winn/Sally Walker's statement, our timeline and sources can all be accessed in the OP and first few posts of Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5403285-thread-17-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

New posters joining us in the genuine spirit of our civil discourse are welcome. It would be helpful to get the background from at least some of the Observer exposé items before posting.
To all - Please be extremely cautious when it comes to naming or implicating people and addresses not in the public eye or with no direct connection to the story, and around the understandable health speculations, especially where details are unclear or still emerging. Remember, even Hollywood rabbits attract the odd flea. Please do not engage with drive-by scolders who seem to have their own agenda and seek to derail. Avoid @'ing and quoting them as - from experience - this will only encourage them back to the threads. We have done amazingly well together for 17 very interesting, very serious and very silly threads so far. I can't be here as much as I'd like so all help with keeping our discussion walking along in our usual reasonable and respectful fashion is very welcome.

Now three months in, if these threads could wear slogan t-shirts they would be Mark Twain's often misquoted 'The report of my death was an exaggeration'. Applications in writing from correspondents seeking supply parcels of fudge and cider will be tolerated.

Here we are again
Disappointed as can be
All good pals and jolly good company
Strolling round the path
Happy on a spree
All good pals and jolly good company

Never mind the weather, never mind the rain
Now that we're together, whoops we go again!
Whoops, we go again
La-di-da-di-da, la-di-da-di-dee
All good pals and jolly good company

Keep to the path. No saltiness. May the fudge and cider be with you.

This isn't the original rebuttal itself, but tthe BBC's contemporaneoeus report, which does have the words in question:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c89eq12qvl5o

There was some discussion on the last thread about the attempt to sell the house by a lottery associated with the Dal Dir book - quoting Is there any legal obligation for lottery companies (such as Gangani Publishing) to publish and/or make available the names of lottery winners? Because what was there to stop them from saying 'oh, lottery is closed, the house has been won now', and just take the money and run? Or saying that the lottery had been won by this couple called...Raynor and Moth Winn?

Lotteries are quite tightly controlled in law:
Lotteries sector guidance

It’s unlikely for a dark triad type to seek help or even a diagnosis

It was not at all compliant.
Take it up with Izzy Winn-Thomas if you wish to pursue action!

Plenty of time to write books and invent lotteries with associated websites and social media posts. But totally unable to work due to the court case.

My recocllection is thaf Gangani's postings on the Accidental Smallholder website said that their arrangement was unregulated for some reason.

Thank you for being able to confirm this.

They should have realised the day after the first post on the Accidental Smallholder that the scheme was completely bonkers:

"We're trying for the actor Rhys Ifans as he was born locally. But I'll keep you posted on that one!"

So that's a celebrity famous for at least a mile radius ' locally ' then ! and a book that could be a Welsh language publication , judging by the title, to be appreciated only by the ...er... Welsh ?

The point I'm trying to make here is this : The majority of members on Accidental are from north of the border in Scotland, there are quite a few dotted about England, even a couple from Ireland, but probably less than twenty from Wales and most of those are migrants from Englandshire.
So , you are trying to flog a book with a title that's half Welsh , an actor that nobody has heared of (outside of S4C watchers, all 3 of em) This is really restricting your market and I think you are going to struggle.
It never fails to amaze me when I see plumbers , electricians and builders driving about in vans that are sign written only in Welsh, they must lose out on an awful lot of business.

I’d never heard of dark triad before and have just read Wikipedia’s page which is very interesting, as is your post. There is a section titled Vulnerable dark triad, which you may see some similarities in too.
I do doubt that she will seek any kind of professional help because she would have to be honest to herself first and be able to accept it and I don’t think it is possible for somebody with these disorders to do that unless once again it is used to deceive and manipulate an innocent party into believing in them again. In other words, how can they take advantage of that situation etc etc

That was me and my musings, and I understand that, in general, lotteries are tightly controlled, but there doesn't appear to be any of the usual checks and balances in place for this one. I based my reasoning on this which Google threw up for me;

What is classed as an illegal lottery?

A prize promotion might be considered an illegal lottery if winner selection is based on chance, and participants are required to pay to enter or to pay for goods at a price that reflects the opportunity to participate.

I'm wondering if this comes more under the heading of 'random raffle', Although you can, apparently, have an 'incidental, non-commercial' lottery which doesn't need any kind of licence and I suspect that Gangani would have claimed, if challenged, that their lottery fell into a sub class of lottery that meant that they didn't have to publish any details or register, in that they might well have claimed that they were raising money for 'good causes', and therefore could work outside the usual regulations.

Thanks to all who have made suggestions for help with sleep, I've made a list! Very much appreciated.

I hadn't really considered Salray in terms of the full dark triad, but remembered (I try not to think about her) someone I knew many years ago who was IMO an ambulant version of it. She left a trail of devastation in her wake both at work and personally and when called out or in danger of it, went instantly into persecuted victim mode, pointing the finger at anyone who had dared cross her as bullies. It's hard to describe her modus operandi but she was very adept at turning the tables on people who had actually been wronged by her and coming up smelling of roses. It was telling that she had something unpleasant to say about practically everyone she met, at odds with her behaviour to their faces. Awful, awful human being who was completely incapable of admitting any fault and openly said "I am never wrong".

It isn't a nice thing to admit but I still hope that one day she goes up against someone as psychopathic as she is (she hurt people I care about) because anyone who isn't hasn't got a chance.

I'm very glad that Chloe H has the protection of the Observer and its lawyers behind her, as well as of course the benefit of truth.

The lottery/raffle… I assume they just wanted to raise money to pay off their debt and never had any intention of letting anybody win their house, hence the lie that the prize came free from all of those inconvenient things they didn’t want to disclose.

So, based on my previous post, the whole thing was highly unethical at the very least and probably illegal.

The Gangani website describes a Prize Draw, but I think it may fall foul of lottery regs in that it does not offer a 'no purchase necessary' option (in fact it directly states that purchases are necessary).
Prize Draws are classed as unregulated but can be monitored by the Lottery Commission to make sure that they do not cross the lines and fall under lottery rules.

I don’t wish ill health on anyone, physical or mental, and I don’t suppose anyone here really knows whether Tim/Moth is today, this week, or generally, much less robust than the average man of his age. I have known far too many people who didn’t reach 70 or even 60, and while many 60-somethings will have 20 or more years of good health and mobility ahead, a great many 60-somethings are already in significant elderly decline. Genetics and lifestyle can only do so much and nobody is guaranteed a tomorrow, or a next year.

With the release of OWH delayed until October 2026, should Moth not survive until then I wonder if his wife will even more persistently monetise his fate. Anger is a natural stage of grieving, but I imagine her response may be a step further than most widows.

I do wish them a long and healthy old age, managed with rather more honesty, grace and decency than has been evident so far.

Oh, Rhys Ifans is pretty famous, I’d have said, and I’m neither Welsh nor an S4C viewer. He was in Notting Hill, The Boat That Rocked, Enduring Love, either that Cate Blanchett Elizabeth I film or its sequel, and in some of the HP films as Luna Lovegood’s mad dad, and he’s in that Game of Thrones prequel on TV.

Though I think I mostly remember who he is because he’s a weird-looking character actor who somehow dated Sienna Miller and Anna Friel.

(Which is not to disagree with your larger point…)

I totally understand that Welsh people running a business in Wales might only want to advertise in Welsh.

What I don’t understand is a pair of English folks who have lived in Wales writing a book with bits of Welsh in it, and in its title, talking about “ eisteddfod mums” so fairly Welsh-centric, with a Welsh surname like Thomas. Almost like someone was trying to pretend to be Welsh when they aren’t.

Well, I think it’s clear that SW, left to herself, has absolutely no instinct for titles. HNTDDD is worse than Lightly Salted Blackberries, but not by much. And Three Mountains and a Céilidh is awful.

To add to the list I can highly recommend Berlin Station in which Rhys Ifans plays a leading role. For good measure it also stars Richard Armitage (no relation). It's a spy thriller which as the name implies is mostly set in Berlin during Trump's first reign. Both RI & RA play CIA officers. There are three series with 29 episodes in total.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BerlinStation(TV_series)

Perhaps she thought the Welshness would ensure it was sold in the local bookshop?

Am I the only person who first met Rhys Ifans in Twin Town?

I doubt Rhys Ifans was ever asked and hopefully would have had enough savvy not to get dragged into the Raymoth Dodgy Draw, in the unlikely event it had ever happened.

As a matter of interest I've run the title HNTDDD past a Welsh speaking, Wales dwelling friend. The reaction was much as expected (annoyed bemusement) and "Noone Welsh would have come up with that".

Yes my bilingual H said much the same (with a similar face on).

I think I said this a while back - that the absolute best thing that could happen for Sal would be for Tim to die. Then she can do the whole 'I told you so!' whilst waving the 'you can't say anything bad about me, I'm a WIDOW!' flag and squeezing out a couple of books about 'living with the utter grief of losing my husband whilst being disbelieved and disparaged by the gutter press'.

I think Tim would be well advised to avoid eating anything she cooks from hereon.

Given the track record of Raymoth it doesn't surprise me, sadly, but people who've lived in Wales (however Saesneg) could be hoped to have a bit more respect for the language and knowledge of the attacks it has come up against and prevailed over.