Thread 18: To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film?

[DisappointedReader]

Hello all. I've simplified the opening post as I don't think we need to keep reposting all the links, timelines and so on at this stage of proceedings.

The Observer's original exposé: The real Salt Path: how a blockbuster book and film were ...
First thread: To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film? | Mumsnet
Links to threads 2-16, the other 20 Observer articles and videos to date, Raynor Winn/Sally Walker's statement, our timeline and sources can all be accessed in the OP and first few posts of Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5403285-thread-17-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

New posters joining us in the genuine spirit of our civil discourse are welcome. It would be helpful to get the background from at least some of the Observer exposé items before posting.
To all - Please be extremely cautious when it comes to naming or implicating people and addresses not in the public eye or with no direct connection to the story, and around the understandable health speculations, especially where details are unclear or still emerging. Remember, even Hollywood rabbits attract the odd flea. Please do not engage with drive-by scolders who seem to have their own agenda and seek to derail. Avoid @'ing and quoting them as - from experience - this will only encourage them back to the threads. We have done amazingly well together for 17 very interesting, very serious and very silly threads so far. I can't be here as much as I'd like so all help with keeping our discussion walking along in our usual reasonable and respectful fashion is very welcome.

Now three months in, if these threads could wear slogan t-shirts they would be Mark Twain's often misquoted 'The report of my death was an exaggeration'. Applications in writing from correspondents seeking supply parcels of fudge and cider will be tolerated.

Here we are again
Disappointed as can be
All good pals and jolly good company
Strolling round the path
Happy on a spree
All good pals and jolly good company

Never mind the weather, never mind the rain
Now that we're together, whoops we go again!
Whoops, we go again
La-di-da-di-da, la-di-da-di-dee
All good pals and jolly good company

Keep to the path. No saltiness. May the fudge and cider be with you.

How many books was the initial deal, do we know?

The only thing that makes me wonder about the idea for sequels being sketched out before TSP was ever published was that TSP looks so much like a typical one-off. A 'these two terrible things happened to us simultaneously, so we did this mad, unconventional thing in order to cope' book.

(Like Cheryl Strayed's Wild which is essentially 'My mother died in horrible circumstances, my family fell apart, the man I thought of as my father vanished, I had a string of affairs, did heroin, ended my marriage and lost my way, so I walked a LD path for which I was in no way prepared'. No sequel, ever, though she's published other books since, and I bet her publishers would have liked one. She's clearly decided not to.)

I suppose I don't see that SW's publishers would have necessarily seen the possibility of sequels before TSP became so successful, and a lot of 'What happened next?/how is Moth?' curiosity started dominating press coverage. It looks to me like a standard 'this awful thing that happened' non-fiction book without any particular reason to think this same author could generate sequels.

That said. I can absolutely see PRH wanting to capitalise on the huge success of TSP once they saw it, and prompting SW to lean in to the health angle and the 'what happened next' one. TWS reads to me very much like a book cobbled together with difficulty by someone trying to replicate a success without the attention-grabbing prompt of TSP.

I think PRH 'made' TSP a success though. They did an immense amount of publicity, they got a top-notch artist to do the cover, all of this either just before or just after the book first came out. Most of us authors can only DREAM about this amount of coverage, we might get a press release, possibly a blog tour but that's it. No magazine articles about us and our 'new release' (unless you are a Big Name author with ads on billboards you don't get this unless your publisher is working to make your book big).

Publishers who have a book in mind that they want to feature and 'make' will put resources into pushing it into the public eye. They pay for it to feature in Best Seller lists, they pay to have it pushed to the forefront in shops like Waterstones (the books stacked on the tables as you go in have paid to be there). Mentions in magazines in the 'what I'm reading' sections? All paid for by publishers.

Of course, it could have bombed totally, but it wouldn't have had to have been released for very long before PRH would know whether they were going to get a return on their money, and THAT would be the point at which they would go after sequels. But they will have told SW that they would want more books anyway, because all publishers want authors to have a series of books; each book sells the book before and the books after. So it's likely that she was already writing (and had been told what to write) the sequels before TSP even came out.

Yes, I posted this a couple of pages ago with link to the Bookseller article. TSP was a standalone deal. TWS was a separate follow up. LL and OWH were a two book deal package.

Well, I will soon be the erm "proud" possessor of my very own copy of TSP. Found it second hand on Amazon and it was 73p when I put it in my basket, today down to 60p. Couple of quid postage but I considered this a sufficiently derisory price to make it worth buying!

I think PRH 'made' TSP a success though. They did an immense amount of publicity, they got a top-notch artist to do the cover, all of this either just before or just after the book first came out. Most of us authors can only DREAM about this amount of coverage, we might get a press release, possibly a blog tour but that's it. No magazine articles about us and our 'new release' (unless you are a Big Name author with ads on billboards you don't get this unless your publisher is working to make your book big).

Well, I agree, but I can also see why they thought the attention-grabbing 'Homeless, terminally-ill, devotedly in love, walking the SWCP' tagline was worth investing in.

Bluntly, it was a success in part because the writing was really basic, and appealed to non-readers, and they were snagged in by the publicity, which focused entirely on the hard-luck story. It has great 'next to the till platitudes' appeal, and can equally go in the 'table in airport bookshop aimed at people who grab something for a longhaul flight or a beach read' category, alongside airport bookshop reliables like thrillers, romance, Who Moved My Blackberry? and 'inspirational non-fiction' next to the snacks and neckpillows.

I can see why they thought it was worth a punt. And absolutely, the cover has been key.

Thank you, @SimoArmo -- yes, I'm sure they were urging her to think up a sequel from the moment TSP started selling, and once they realised that the book was almost incidental to the hard-luck story, and how much interest there was among readers and journalists in what happened next.

And the same again when even the comparatively less satisfactory TWS sold.

Musing on Raymoth (and more particularly the Penguin Lessons author) I wonder if as well as "memoir" authors signing something stating what they've written is true and getting a legal read done, publishers might insert some sort of clause asking them to declare that there is nothing in their past that would compromise the "heartwarming, feelgood" book/film about their lives in the future. I don't think anyone sensible would care about a caution for nicking sweets in Woolworths aged 12 or a bit of a rackety love life, but actual things that turn the very premise of such a book or film upside down.

Bit of a diversion but many years ago I once sat on a union committee with someone who had been in the International Brigade in the Spanish Civil War as a young man (teenage boy) Like a lot of idealistic youths at the time, he had joined the Communist party. He soon became very disenchanted with Stalin's Russia, left the party and later fought for Britain in WW2.

Decades later his granddaughter was getting married in the US and he answered the question still asked at that time regarding "are you or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party" truthfully. We were all a bit "You did what?!" but he said he wasn't ashamed and lying is wrong. No visa and a wedding rapidly relocated to the UK (he was a truly lovely man)

I don't think anyone is expecting this level of scrutiny from PRH and others, but there seems to be a singular lack of care and accountability even after exposes like Our Chloe's, to the point it seems they don't care about the fact they have peddled lies, however inadvertently.

I haven't been inside Waterstones for a while ... so I had a look today. I was scanning the considerable Nature section and was surprised that none of the Winn books were there.

I turned around and there were two of the titles - in the Local section 😡 They were low down, though, and nearly all the other books had those markers (from the staff) warmly recommending them.

LL isn't considered 'local' enough so that is in Travel. Anyway, oddly, before I left they were all facing backwards or had a worthier book on top ...😇

Tiny acts of sabotage @BeguiledBrandy , tiny but meaningful

Love it @BeguiledBrandy ! 😎
I got cross again as I read the back cover of it. All that guff about losing their home through no fault of their own and the terminal illness diagnosis at the same time as their eviction.

I haven’t read the books for a long time so I picked them back up today to flick through for relevant information but didn’t find what I was looking for. Can anybody tell me offhand, is it book two where she writes about visiting Penguin in London?

That's fiction though.

Non fiction is often different.
eg.
This is what David Higham Agency asks for:
"If the book you are submitting is non-fiction, please include:
A proposal for the book, including an overview of its themes and story and your sources

• Some sample text or chapters if you have them
• Information about your credentials for writing the book
• A covering letter"

@FishwivesSalute I can also see why they thought the attention-grabbing 'Homeless, terminally-ill, devotedly in love, walking the SWCP' tagline was worth investing in...
I'm sure they were urging her to think up a sequel from the moment TSP started selling, and once they realised that the book was almost incidental to the hard-luck story, and how much interest there was among readers and journalists in what happened next.
And the same again when even the comparatively less satisfactory TWS sold.

She had put even more eggs in the original basket - so Penguin knew there was more material if TSP took off:

"in 2013, when Raynor Winn first learned that her husband, Moth, had a terminal neurological condition, she was reminded of her mother’s death."

https://observer.co.uk/news/national/article/so-what-did-the-publisher-actually-know

I think it's also important to be mindful of the agent Jennifer Christie's role in all of this too. PRH only became involved for each book after agreeing to buy the rights. No doubt it was a no brainer for PRH following TSP success but what influence did JC play? Did she help craft the direction of the subsequent books? And when did she first sign RW? Do we believe RW contacted JC after her BI article? Or was it much earlier, indicating something more orchestrated between writer and agent?

Sending you all best wishes, @Uricon2.

One thing I don't understand is that PRH were willing and able to throw the kitchen sink behind TSP in terms of marketing and branding to ensure that it had the best chance of hitting a home run and being a commercial success but on the other hand lacked the financial resources to conduct the most basic of due diligence to ensure that it was what it purported to be - an unflinchingly honest and true story.

What am I missing?

They didn't lack the money to do due diligence. They lacked the will. Possibly they already knew something was up but were so keen to run with the 'disadvantaged couple walking' theme that they kept their heads down and hoped that nobody would ever raise it. Perhaps they just couldn't be bothered and just asked SW if everything was 'as she remembered it' (which is a great get out, because of COURSE she will say it's how she remembered it. Nobody can prove that she 'misremembered' deliberately).

@izzywizzyletsgetbizzywynthomas omly that they didn’t care, I think! Their eyes were full of pound signs 🤑

@Uricon2 i hope things at the hospital go smoothly. Wishing you all the best 🪸 (sending coral because with all the flowers, you may have run out of vases) xx

I was thinking yesterday about my first impressions of TSP, when my eagerly-reading-it friend started telling me about it and when it was everywhere. I wasn't interested in reading it then and I remember thinking how odd it was that a man who was supposedly 'terminally ill' (which I distinctly remember being the phrase used to advertise the book) would go on a long distance walk rather than spend his time with his family. And when the second book (also eagerly devoured by my friend) came out, I thought 'how terminally ill can this man be, if there's another book?'

In my mind, the phrase 'terminally ill' meant 'at or very close to, the end of life.' And THAT was the point at which I started to wonder. If Tim had actually died following the TSP book, (of whatever cause, even if not the alleged CBD), then none of this would have ever emerged in such an explosive way. It was the 'terminal illness' schtick being strung out over more books that really put me off the entire franchise.

@Uricon2 - hope all goes well for you. I would send flowers but I think you've got enough. I think we've still got some Strepsils left somewhere though.

I know we've covered this topic before, but does anybody have an idea of what the Walkers will have earned (pre-tax) from book sales (TSP,TWS,LL) and film (TSP) rights/royalties?

As an unknown, her advance would probably have been less than £30,000. But the book, written as Raynor Winn ..... and its two sequels, The Wild Silence and Landlines, both of which lean heavily on the couple's original story, have been best-sellers. As well as winning prestigious awards, they have sold more than two million copies in English and been translated into 25 languages. And Walker has already received a hefty advance for a fourth.
There would also have been income from eBooks, audiobooks, foreign rights and speaking appearances.
It's estimated the UK sales alone brought in £9.5 million and industry insiders estimate the author's total earnings would be at least £3 million, but could be substantially more.
The film adaptation of The Salt Path, for which Walker is a co-producer, could also have seen her pocket anywhere between £500,000 and £1 million.
(from Daily Mail, 12 July 2025)

Not sure if the link to this article about travel writers needing a USP, has been posted before!

Raynor Winn and the lure of the USP - by Pete May

Although her agent will have taken a (probably) 20% cut. And then there's the tax... She will have earned very nicely, make no mistake, but people forget that publishers take a cut, your agent takes a cut and the taxman takes their cut of any earnings. When I see my royalties (which is the amount my publisher pays me) I have to take off 40% of it to split between agent and tax, so what I actually get in my bank is nowhere near what I see in the sales figures.

Writing is not a way to get rich quick. Or even very very slowly. It's a good side earner if you do well but (as a single person about to retire from the day job and who is now very worried about finances) - it's not a guaranteed luxury lifestyle, even if you sell reasonably well.

"Writing is not a way to get rich quick."

Seems to have worked for the walkers/Walkers though!

What did they do that most authors don't? 🤔

And are there lessons to follow/avoid?

What I suspect happened was that SW's book landed just at the point that PRH were looking for a book like it. Maybe someone had mentioned that 'travel memoir' looked like being an upcoming genre, or perhaps they had decided to make it up and coming. But it's certainly not well written enough for PRH's acquiring editors to have been stunned by its brilliance, so I would go with - right place, right time. Her agent may have already been alerted to look out for this kind of thing, and picked up her book in a general trawl. Then, because PRH already wanted it to be a success, they threw money at it.

Obviously some people do make it big with a first book. But generally this is because they've had this idea bubbling in the back of their head for years, they may even have worked on some of the book for years too. But, while it might make this first book a great success and earn money, it then brings the problem of the fact that you've got to come up with another book and another and another which are all equally successful, which often doesn't happen, simply because there's no time to 'craft' these books. You have to turn in at least a book a year in order to capitalise on the success of the previous book, and people often find that they genuinely did only have one book in them...

Do you think PRH will let the media storm die down and try and push out OWH in Oct 2026 on the somewhat cynical basis that costs have been sunk and acolytes will still buy it in sufficient numbers to make it a commercial success? (The caveat perhaps being, dependent on what else emerges over the coming months.)

regarding the Laurie Hertzel conundrum: