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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

11 million immigrants since 2000. When I

789 replies

Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 08:40

Sorry, it’s another immigration one.

I always see immigration discussed in terms of race, religion, who may or may not be a good fit for the UK, whether it’s by small boats - to be honest, this is not the biggest worry for me.

The biggest worry is the sheer increase in our population and how many people this country can reasonably accommodate. We are now 8th in Europe for population density - only behind Belgium and the Netherlands, and a handful of places like Vatican City and the Channel Islands. At present we have net migration of around 500,000 a year.

I’m worried that the key issues of overpopulation are being overlooked to make this conversation all about race. What about our pollution levels, wildlife habitats, flood risk, food security, infrastructure? Will this eventually be a polluted city state country? It seems to be heading that way.

Posters always say we need immigration, but we have already welcome 11 million since 2000. If that still isn’t enough; what is? Or do we just keep going?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
Nohorsesonlyfools · 04/10/2025 13:14

BatchCookBabe · 04/10/2025 11:09

Why aren't you posting a link to the ONS proof of the 11 millions immigrants since 2000 @Uggbootsforever ???

Stop trying to derail. Even half a brain cell knows it's true.

London alone is 40- 50% foreign born and that's just legal and documented. Overwhelmengly from developing countries/third world. In reality probably much more than that.

We have whole schools with teacher and pupils population where not a single person, teacher or pupil, grew up in a household where women are considered equal to men or are treated with respect. We have schools with classes of almost no girls because of sex abortions. We have 30-40% sen in schools because of inbreeding.

We have whole areas, communities, GP surgeries, shops, councils where people operate within doctrines not compatible with a civilised democratic egalitarian societies. This has an effect on everything else.

Who in their right mind would think any of it is okay.

Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 13:14

DIYagainstMould · 04/10/2025 13:08

Starr having enough of these threads. We are here, your men fall head over heels for us, they don't divorce us, suck it English women, especially the racists.

😂

OP posts:
newbluesofa · 04/10/2025 13:14

Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 09:02

That’s really not the discussion we are having here

It is completely the discussion here! You said in your OP 'The biggest worry is the sheer increase in our population and how many people this country can reasonably accommodate.' - how many we can accommodate depends entirely on infrastructure.

Are you serious with this thread? You've seen that the population has increased by 11 million and decided that that entire number is immigrants and then completely dimissed a very relevant point about infrastructure. I really despair at some people, no wonder reform are winning people over when basic logic is lacking

Myrtletown · 04/10/2025 13:15

I really think @Mumsnet should monitor and edit posts such as this. The title is blatant misinformation with no stat to back it up. It’s fine if op wants to discuss immigration and how she’s come to this (imagined) number but it’s NOT fine to title a thread with misinformation and fake news, as some will just see that and take it as fact.

MN has a responsibility here as do all major internet sites and companies.

Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 13:15

newbluesofa · 04/10/2025 13:14

It is completely the discussion here! You said in your OP 'The biggest worry is the sheer increase in our population and how many people this country can reasonably accommodate.' - how many we can accommodate depends entirely on infrastructure.

Are you serious with this thread? You've seen that the population has increased by 11 million and decided that that entire number is immigrants and then completely dimissed a very relevant point about infrastructure. I really despair at some people, no wonder reform are winning people over when basic logic is lacking

So in theory we just keep building infrastructure and expanding… until what, no more room to build? then what? Just call everyone a racist?!

OP posts:
nomas · 04/10/2025 13:16

EasternStandard · 04/10/2025 13:00

Your 2.5m wasn’t correct. The post you’re replying to is closer to what it is.

I’ve already attached why I posted 2.5.

And no, my number was closer.

whoamI00 · 04/10/2025 13:16

Don’t you think that an increased population without immigration would have a similar impact on pollution, wildlife habitats, and other environmental issues?

nomas · 04/10/2025 13:17

Myrtletown · 04/10/2025 13:15

I really think @Mumsnet should monitor and edit posts such as this. The title is blatant misinformation with no stat to back it up. It’s fine if op wants to discuss immigration and how she’s come to this (imagined) number but it’s NOT fine to title a thread with misinformation and fake news, as some will just see that and take it as fact.

MN has a responsibility here as do all major internet sites and companies.

Agreed. It’s the Trump era of fake truths.

Myrtletown · 04/10/2025 13:18

We have schools with classes of almost no girls because of sex abortions. We have 30-40% sen in schools because of inbreeding.

wow. Untrue and racist

EasternStandard · 04/10/2025 13:19

nomas · 04/10/2025 13:16

I’ve already attached why I posted 2.5.

And no, my number was closer.

It’s wrong

FOJN · 04/10/2025 13:20

ChevyCamaro · 04/10/2025 13:00

I’d really like to address the truism I hear over and over on here regarding immigration- “ We need overseas workers to do the jobs British people think they are too good to do”
I often get the feeling the people saying this have never been poor or working class.
The reality is this: If you are, for example a lone parent with no car and you need a job you will find that supermarkets and shops don’t need many people anymore, and the ones that do will only give random hours so you can’t plan in childcare.
You’d be expected to do early/ late/ night shifts that childcare won’t cover.
There are no factories anymore to speak of, and the ones there are youd need a car to get to and from, as public transport is non existent or unreliable even in big cities. For many care jobs you also need a car.
When I was young I lived in a very deprived area, but I’d sometimes get temp work in factories. The agency would bus us there from the city centre office. I doubt that still exists.
Hospitality, you will need to work every Saturday and Sunday and fruit and veg picking, again you need a car.
When my husband came here as a young man he worked in hotels,so had live- in accommodation. He nearly always got jobs where he’d have some kind of basic accommodation- he could do this as he was young, single with no family.
I knew Poles who came as young people and lived in shared houses, sharing rooms to save money. You can do that when it’s temporary and you are sending plenty of money home for your future.
Things like nursing, which was a key working class profession, used to have a bursary. Now you pay to study.
Working conditions and infrastructure are MASSIVE obstacles to the working class. Public transport is not some nice to have add on, it’s essential for workers to be able to work.
In the past 25 years I’ve seen zero hours contracts, total decimation in infrastructure, deciline in manufacturing and total stalling of social mobility. You are at the bottom, there are multiple mechanisms in place keeping you there.
Im so sick of middle class people who have never faced any of these obstacles sneering at the working class for “ not wanting to get their hands dirty” .
Yes, we should have some immigration, no I’m not a Brexiteer, but we need to look at this issue as a whole picture, not trot out soundbites thinking they make you sound liberal and tolerant.
Working class people are always the ones suffering when those at the top decide what’s best for the economy.

100% this.

Imagine if the middle class professional jobs offered 12 hour contracts with the opportunity for overtime but that overtime was only ever offered at short notice and you know you will not get offered extra hours again for weeks if you don't take the shifts when they are offered. If you can't take the extra hours you have to apply for UC to top up your basic income but that won't get paid before your DD's are taken out so you may go into overdraft or some of your bills don't get paid.

Some people just have no idea but they've got plenty to say about how you could make your life better if you just tried harder.

Myrtletown · 04/10/2025 13:20

Bumblebee72 · 04/10/2025 13:13

Ballerina never back after the links that validate the scale is in the right ball if not completely correctly label. If you she so shocked that understanding was that she has gone to sign up for Reform.

Eh?

newbluesofa · 04/10/2025 13:20

Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 13:15

So in theory we just keep building infrastructure and expanding… until what, no more room to build? then what? Just call everyone a racist?!

Well yes, as long as we have sufficient infrastructure in place (which we currently don't) then why not? If we 'run out of room' that would mean we can't provide sufficient infrastructure so then would need to reduce immigration. If we had sufficient infrastructure then what would be the reason to reduce immigration? You sound very panicked here whats going on?

Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 13:21

whoamI00 · 04/10/2025 13:16

Don’t you think that an increased population without immigration would have a similar impact on pollution, wildlife habitats, and other environmental issues?

Yes, I addressed this upthread.

My feelings would be no different. But that’s not what’s happening here.

OP posts:
nomas · 04/10/2025 13:24

EasternStandard · 04/10/2025 13:19

It’s wrong

You’re wrong that OP’s number is closer to correct.

EasternStandard · 04/10/2025 13:24

nomas · 04/10/2025 13:24

You’re wrong that OP’s number is closer to correct.

I said the post you’re replying to. Ie @Bumblebee72figure was closer than yours

nomas · 04/10/2025 13:25

Repeated post, deleted.

nomas · 04/10/2025 13:25

EasternStandard · 04/10/2025 13:24

I said the post you’re replying to. Ie @Bumblebee72figure was closer than yours

But it isn’t.

Bumblebee72 · 04/10/2025 13:29

nomas · 04/10/2025 13:25

But it isn’t.

My post from before: "Even in your own post you state the increase in 9 years from 2012 to 2021 was 2.5m. Even a simple extrapolation of that period support net immigration over the period from 2000 to 2025 would near to 6m, and we know there was a spike in 2022/2023."

So you stand by the net immigration from 2000-2012 was zero and the net mitigation from 2022 to 2025 was zero?

TheHillOfDreams · 04/10/2025 13:32

newbluesofa · 04/10/2025 13:20

Well yes, as long as we have sufficient infrastructure in place (which we currently don't) then why not? If we 'run out of room' that would mean we can't provide sufficient infrastructure so then would need to reduce immigration. If we had sufficient infrastructure then what would be the reason to reduce immigration? You sound very panicked here whats going on?

What counts as "running out of room"?
The entire UK concreted over?

It's interesting to consider where the tipping point is. Being unable to be self-sufficient growing food seems an important metric, but one we passed a long time ago!

So at what point is it too much? Hopefully long before there are no green spaces left.

Bumblebee72 · 04/10/2025 13:34

TheHillOfDreams · 04/10/2025 13:32

What counts as "running out of room"?
The entire UK concreted over?

It's interesting to consider where the tipping point is. Being unable to be self-sufficient growing food seems an important metric, but one we passed a long time ago!

So at what point is it too much? Hopefully long before there are no green spaces left.

We could build a second tier of council housing on stilts on top of the current tier of council housing. That could double the amount of social housing available!

nomas · 04/10/2025 13:34

Bumblebee72 · 04/10/2025 13:29

My post from before: "Even in your own post you state the increase in 9 years from 2012 to 2021 was 2.5m. Even a simple extrapolation of that period support net immigration over the period from 2000 to 2025 would near to 6m, and we know there was a spike in 2022/2023."

So you stand by the net immigration from 2000-2012 was zero and the net mitigation from 2022 to 2025 was zero?

Edited

I had posted 2.5m on a different thread related to 2012 to 2021.

Someone else posted a chart, which shows 6.6m between 2000-2025.

Not sure where you got 8m from.

ForCraftyWriter · 04/10/2025 13:35

I completely agree.

The migrant crossings on boats are a drop in the ocean compared with the actual net migration figures. But it suits Farage/Tommy Robinson etc to bang the drums about “illegal migrants” and inflame hatred and tensions.

The much bigger and more pressing issue is high levels of net immigration and whether this has an overall net benefit or harm for the country.
I would assume net harm but without figures and facts I recognise that’s just my perception.

Interesting that levels are I think lower under labour government than conservative, but now’s the time the right wing supporters are choosing to make a fuss about it.

Bumblebee72 · 04/10/2025 13:39

nomas · 04/10/2025 13:34

I had posted 2.5m on a different thread related to 2012 to 2021.

Someone else posted a chart, which shows 6.6m between 2000-2025.

Not sure where you got 8m from.

So 7-8 is a big fat lie but you now accept 6.6m is ok but posted 2.5 anyway to obfuscate and said then repeated claimed it was closer to 6.6 you know accept?

Do you understand how numbers work?

IceBrownie · 04/10/2025 13:40

Quoting:

Who Really Costs Britain?

Every time the asylum debate comes up someone shares a meme saying asylum hotels are bankrupting the country. The figure usually quoted is £45 per year. It looks simple but it hides the truth. When you look at the actual numbers, asylum is one of the smallest costs in Britain. The real drains on our money are elsewhere.

The Home Office spent £3.1 billion on hotels for asylum seekers in 2023–24. That works out at £46 per person in the UK or about £86 per taxpayer. If you add all asylum support the total rises to £4.7 billion. That is £70 per person or about £130 per taxpayer.

Benefit fraud and error cost £9.5 billion in 2023–24. That is £142 per person or about £260 per taxpayer. Much of this is not fraud but mistakes or official error. Some is recovered later.

The tax gap which means avoidance, evasion, non-payment and error was £46.8 billion. That is £699 per person or about £1,300 per taxpayer.

Bank bailouts and corporate subsidies are another hidden cost. They add up to £50–60 billion a year. That is £750–£900 per person or about £1,600 per taxpayer.

Military operations overseas cost between £5–15 billion each year. That is £75–£225 per person or about £150–£400 per taxpayer.

Foreign criminals in UK prisons cost around £600 million per year. That is £9 per person or about £20 per taxpayer. This does not include court costs or deportation costs.

Financial crime enforcement costs £1–2 billion per year. That is £15–£30 per person or about £30–£60 per taxpayer. The real cost of financial crime is far higher.

Billionaires who are not taxed on their wealth and big companies that use loopholes cost Britain another £15–25 billion every year. That is £225–£375 per person or about £500–£830 per taxpayer.

HS2 has already cost about £27 billion. That is £403 per person or about £900 per taxpayer so far. If it reaches £80 billion the final bill will be £1,190 per person or over £2,300 per taxpayer.

The bailout of energy companies and support for bills during the crisis has cost £78 billion over two years. That is nearly £600 per person per year or about £1,200 per taxpayer. The collapse of Bulb alone added another £3 billion which is £45 per person or about £90 per taxpayer. Fossil fuel subsidies add around £17.5 billion a year. That is £260 per person or about £550 per taxpayer.

The Ministry of Justice and police budgets together cost over £30 billion a year. That is £450 per person or about £830 per taxpayer. A huge share of that goes on petty crimes that clog up courts and prisons at high cost to the public.

So let’s put this side by side.
Asylum seekers: £46–£70 per person
Benefit fraud and error: £142 per person
Tax avoidance and evasion: £699 per person
Bank bailouts and subsidies: £750–£900 per person
Military overseas ops: £75–£225 per person
Foreign criminals in prison: £9 per person
Financial crime enforcement: £15–£30 per person
Billionaire and corporate loopholes: £225–£375 per person
HS2: £403 so far and possibly £1,190 each
Energy bailouts and subsidies: £600–£850 per person each year
Criminal justice system: £450 per person

It is obvious what costs Britain the most. Asylum seekers are not even close. The idea that they are draining the country falls apart the moment you see the numbers. The biggest costs come from corporate bailouts, billionaire tax reliefs, tax avoidance, subsidies, failed megaprojects and the justice system itself.

So the next time someone waves a meme about asylum hotels remember the truth. You are paying more for failed energy companies, HS2, bank bailouts, corporate subsidies and tax avoidance than you will ever pay for asylum seekers. If you want to save money start at the top not the bottom.

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