Page 4 | AIBU to tell team members to forfeit their breaks

Suedesofblue · 2025-10-03T21:12:11+00:00

Team member 1: came unprepared to meeting and needed to use one of my pens. Unprofessional. She is being groomed for a role in another office where manager would definitely make her forfeit her breaks for that, so it’s important she learns now. Team member 2: Left annotated document at home which means I have to fit it in tomorrow instead of today. It is only five minutes of work, but again that’s not the point. They should have remembered. Team member 3: Briefing team and a team member takes his suit jacket off in the middle of it, which meant I had no choice but to disrupt the meeting for everyone in order to apprehend him.

BlueSeagull · 04/10/2025 05:43

MargaretThursday · 04/10/2025 00:55

I don't know why people think they're being clever writing as though work is school.

If at work you turned up unprepared for meetings, then I expect you would be reprimanded. If it happened regularly you might end up losing your job. You wouldn't lose your morning break because you don't have one.

And plenty of jobs require uniform, mine doesn't, but I'm sure if I turned up in a skirt as short as the local school children seem to think reasonable, then my line manager would also be having a word.

You may think that it's ever so clever not to bother with silly little rules like being ready to start lessons with the equipment you know you should have, but how annoying for the children who want to learn when half the lesson is taken up with things like that every lesson.
What is wrong with schools is that too many children are going, supported by parents, with the idea that education doesn't matter for them And ignoring rules is to be applauded.

And if you want to pretend that school and workplaces should be the same then note that work typically gets around 5 weeks of Holiday as opposed to 13, a full time job is 9am-5pm as opposed to 8.30-3pm, with often far less responsibility. They're also not going to be let go after 6 months because they were turning up to meetings unprepared and refusing to wear the uniform correctly.

This!
Some children seem to think they can do what they want in school and unfortunately parents seem to back them.

spoonbillstretford · 04/10/2025 05:49

LNEAX · 03/10/2025 22:27

What line of work is this? You sound incredibly stressed and are taking it out on your team. Of course people need breaks at work and occasionally forget things etc. If this is just a drop in the puddle then manage that separately but id avoid making it a toxic place to work or being ‘that’ kind of manager who no one listens to because they’re seen as nitpicking/OTT.

Totally agree. Then don't do it to kids at school.

rwalker · 04/10/2025 06:46

Your comparing apples and oranges
school breaks are a perk working breaks are legal requirement after 6 continuous hours or there unpaid so it’s effectively your own time so they can’t make you forfeit it

actions have consequences I would have no problem with my child missing there break due to the issues you pointed out
because I wouldn’t want my child to be an entitled brat who thought they were beyond being disciplined at school and have some respect

MrsVinceVega · 04/10/2025 06:52

Yawn

C4tintherug · 04/10/2025 07:00

Suedesofblue · 04/10/2025 00:55

Well, clearly if my team were behaving like that, I could have a few choices e.g.

Address the genuinely disruptive behaviour and stop worrying about the things mentioned in my posts. I’d also have a word with them separately to ascertain whether it was mainly in my meetings they behaved like that, and if so, why. If not, why. I may/may not get a satisfactory response.

Take time to address that behaviour AND make sure I still focus on the things mentioned in my posts

Ignore that behaviour and ignore the things mentioned in my posts

Keep focusing purely on the things mentioned in my posts and ignore the other behaviour

The weeing on the floor is unlikely to happen. Instead, I suspect that the team member may sit in the meeting not taking much in as he is distracted by the urge to go to the toilet (I’m ok with that, it’s the principle I’m worried about more than value). Alternatively, I suppose they could just decide to leave the room and go to the toilet anyway (in which case they can be sent out of the room for insolence when they come back). In the unlikely event that they did wet themselves, the meeting will be disrupted again, but they will be bullied which will teach them more resilience. Whilst not perfect, those scenarios are clearly better than a quick nod if they ask to go to the toilet (which of course would lead to absolute chaos).

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I had never thought of addressing the genuinely disruptive behaviour. Thanks for that. How should I address it?

oh fyi the employee cannot be fired.

cariadlet · 04/10/2025 07:02

I wish people would just bloody say what they mean.

I'm autistic and took the post literally (I wondered whether the op was on a wind up or just a weird boss but didn't realise it was supposed to be about school punishments until other posters pointed it out).

Now I'm going to get a Mumsnet email telling me that the results are in for a poll in wish I hadn't bothered voting. 🙄

theclive · 04/10/2025 07:05

Yep. Absolutely sick to death of my son's school’s punitive approach. It's crushing him.

SprayWhiteDung · 04/10/2025 07:06

Marianne54 · 03/10/2025 22:28

Are you trying to be clever? Really, you sound like a twat. Stop digging yourself a hole and think of an excuse for mn to delete this thread.

That's a very good additional point that you're highlighting well there: bullying in any half-decent workplace is stamped right down on; whereas in schools (and also very often on MN), people who are subjected to it are routinely ignored, ridiculed, victim-blamed and told that it's all in their heads.

Catsknowbest · 04/10/2025 07:06

Not unless you want to break the law. Very strange post. Are you thinking of corporal punishment as well......?

Catsknowbest · 04/10/2025 07:07

JLou08 · 03/10/2025 22:51

Yes, be an over punitive boss. Make them all anxious by punishing every little mistake. Then when there is a MH crisis amongst employees and they struggle to come into work and struggle regulating their emotions blame it all on bad parenting rather than recognising that it is the workplace that caused the issues.

Well said. We have exactly this at my workplace atm. One manager who I'm thankful has no jurisdiction over me has caused a rash of LT sickness.

SprayWhiteDung · 04/10/2025 07:18

I agree with you, OP: whilst some negative behaviours at schools obviously do need to be addressed and punished appropriately, and also appropriately for the age of the child, there's a whole load of other stuff that is ridiculous: punishment by a thousand cuts.

Swearing at the teacher, bullying and violently assaulting classmates, being deliberately disruptive etc. - there clearly need to be consequences that stop such behaviour.

Forgetting a pen, taking off a coat when it's very hot, needing to go to the toilet suddenly... why are these actually punished in the name of 'discipline'? It's school, not the army.

Why can a 40yo woman with a period emergency in the workplace freely go to the toilet to deal with it when she needs to; yet a young girl who has only just started them and is still trying to learn how to cope with big scary changes to her body is flatly denied - or possibly allowed eventually, but only after she's been forced to beg and disclose private information and forfeit her own personal dignity to be allowed to do so?

oldFoolMe · 04/10/2025 07:22

Yes if you want to build a workplace that hates you ! I implore you to read mulitpliers and to take this approach ! You won't regret it.

SprayWhiteDung · 04/10/2025 07:27

Fair enough if people don't personally like it, but as a comparative device to make you stop and think, I don't understand why it's automatically dismissed as somehow stupid, boring or irrelevant to draw attention to two similar or equivalent situations where one is accepted as normal but the other certainly wouldn't be.

Just as long as the point isn't laboured endlessly and is declared quickly if people don't get it soon.

Like the 'cup of tea' illustration for consent: it clearly gets the message across by making you think "eh?' to start with, but then the penny drops - if you say "that's silly, because drinking a cup of tea is not the same thing as having sex", you've kind of missed the whole point.

MaryBeardsShoes · 04/10/2025 07:30

Merryoldgoat · 03/10/2025 22:14

Obviously the point you’re making is about punitive school punishments. I agree with you that schools have become like prisons and I detest it.

Nonsense! Discipline your kids and everywhere would be much more pleasant.

MaryBeardsShoes · 04/10/2025 07:30

SprayWhiteDung · 04/10/2025 07:27

Fair enough if people don't personally like it, but as a comparative device to make you stop and think, I don't understand why it's automatically dismissed as somehow stupid, boring or irrelevant to draw attention to two similar or equivalent situations where one is accepted as normal but the other certainly wouldn't be.

Just as long as the point isn't laboured endlessly and is declared quickly if people don't get it soon.

Like the 'cup of tea' illustration for consent: it clearly gets the message across by making you think "eh?' to start with, but then the penny drops - if you say "that's silly, because drinking a cup of tea is not the same thing as having sex", you've kind of missed the whole point.

But these aren’t comparable situations.

SprayWhiteDung · 04/10/2025 07:31

I also don't understand why the rules about silly little things are considerably more draconian for children who have no choice but to be there than for adults who are paid to be there and who are free to hand in their notice and leave shortly after whenever they want to.

Gruffporcupine · 04/10/2025 07:32

I'm sure your DC are beautifully behaved...

AgnesX · 04/10/2025 07:32

Are you for real? You don't "apprehend" people for taking their jackets off.

GameWheelsAlarm · 04/10/2025 07:33

It's a stupid analogy. No employer is forced to employ a worker who can't be arsed, but all children have a right to an education, even the ones whose home life has set them up with an anti-education attitude. Employers can expect an attitude of diligence and appropriate conduct and don't have to employ anyone who.doesn't show these qualities. Schools have to have systems which instill these qualities, prevent the lack of them from disrupting the education of others, and show children that there are unpleasant consequences when you don't.

It is unreasonable for these consequences to include the removal of break times. Breaks are a very necessary need, not a luxury. However, the ridiculous underfunding of schools is to blame here so blame the Tories ultimately. Any punishment either has to be the enforcing of something unpleasant or the removal of something that is pleasant, neither of which should be to the extent that overall human rights are overuled or fundamental needs unmet. All the old-fashioned school punishments are rightly gone because they were wrong - physical pain and public humiliation as punishment were never a good idea. After school detention becomes an unworkable punishment of the parent when a reliable school end time is critical to complicated commuting arrangements. The appropriate way to have a discipline system that works is to have good and enjoyable but unnecessary activities built into the school week - eg by having the school day officially extended to 4pm and the last hour being fun clubs that go over and above the curriculum - you've then got a benefit that can be removed for bad behaviour that isn't something that is vital and necessary. Schools do not have the capacity to create meaningful disciplinary systems because they do not have the funding to give children enjoyable and engaging but unnecessary benefits that they value. If they did, the removal of those benefits for poor behaviour can work as a part of a rational disciplinary process.

SprayWhiteDung · 04/10/2025 07:35

MaryBeardsShoes · 04/10/2025 07:30

But these aren’t comparable situations.

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Forgetting a pen or taking off a jacket when it gets hot? Or do you mean something else?

They're only not comparable in the workplace because nobody would think to make an issue of them in the workplace - much less sèek to punish!

Jellycatspyjamas · 04/10/2025 07:35

spoonbillstretford · 04/10/2025 05:49

Totally agree. Then don't do it to kids at school.

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I think of parents sent their kids to school ready to learn, with the basic equipment they need, dressed decently and actually disciplined their kids for messing about half the arbitrary rules wouldn’t be needed.

My DS started high school this year, some of the behaviours he describes are an utter nonsense - kids not having a pen/pencil every single day, not forgotten because they never have one. Kids arriving 20 minutes late for class, being destructive, back chatting teachers, picking fights in the class. If that was your day all day every day, and you know parents will make excuses for their offspring not just doing what they need to, you’d be implementing discipline for little things.

AgnesX · 04/10/2025 07:35

Oh right so it's another of these daft analogy threads 🙄

TorroFerney · 04/10/2025 07:37

brunettemic · 03/10/2025 22:25

So you’re trying to question how school works vs work. If we ignore the obvious that they’re very different things and let’s turn your examples into work based scenarios:
Team member 1…doesn’t bring their laptop to work because they’ve never learnt the importance of bringing the correct resources and being prepared for the day.
Team member 2…failed get a contract signed by a new customer and upload it into the relevant system, the customer took their business elsewhere and the business suffered financial loss. All because they didn’t learn the importance of doing tasks complete and on time.
Team member 3…never learned that sometimes you’re asked to wear certain things at certain times. They don’t bring their PPE on site, walked under a scaffold and a breeze block fell and caved their skull in.

If you don’t focus on the specifics of the things you don’t like and realise a lot of them are general guidance for life it can change your view.

Exactly. But to write your excellent post you need to have some critical thinking skills which are lacking in the opening post.

hopspot · 04/10/2025 07:41

Suedesofblue · 04/10/2025 00:55

Well, clearly if my team were behaving like that, I could have a few choices e.g.

Address the genuinely disruptive behaviour and stop worrying about the things mentioned in my posts. I’d also have a word with them separately to ascertain whether it was mainly in my meetings they behaved like that, and if so, why. If not, why. I may/may not get a satisfactory response.

Take time to address that behaviour AND make sure I still focus on the things mentioned in my posts

Ignore that behaviour and ignore the things mentioned in my posts

Keep focusing purely on the things mentioned in my posts and ignore the other behaviour

The weeing on the floor is unlikely to happen. Instead, I suspect that the team member may sit in the meeting not taking much in as he is distracted by the urge to go to the toilet (I’m ok with that, it’s the principle I’m worried about more than value). Alternatively, I suppose they could just decide to leave the room and go to the toilet anyway (in which case they can be sent out of the room for insolence when they come back). In the unlikely event that they did wet themselves, the meeting will be disrupted again, but they will be bullied which will teach them more resilience. Whilst not perfect, those scenarios are clearly better than a quick nod if they ask to go to the toilet (which of course would lead to absolute chaos).

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When do you find time to chat individually to multiple children after each lesson?

I’m assuming you’re not a teacher or you’d realise with back to back lessons, no support staff, a huge workload and multiple children this is impossible.

Also, we don’t get to pick the rules and we certainly don’t get to pick the ones we agree with or don’t agree with.

Moglet4 · 04/10/2025 07:42

WonderingWanda · 03/10/2025 23:29

Well you've clearly not taught in a school recently. Let me paint a clearer picture.

Team members 1, 2 and 3 burst into the meeting laughing and pushing and shoving one another. Team member 3 calls team member 1 a fat cunt When it's pointed how inappropriate that is is inappropriate and that they will have to fo overtime if it happens again that the meeting has already begun team member 1 says "I'm not doing anything, why are you always picking on me that's victimisation", team member 2 now swinging on his chair asks "why do we have to have a meeting about this, it's a load of bollocks anyway, my Mum says I don't have to do it if I don't want to". Meanwhile, team member 3 has pinched team membet 4's notebook and has made a paper airplane out of it. Team member 5 wants to go to the toilet and says they are going to piss all over the floor and it's their human right despite only being in the meeting 15 mins. Team member 6 puts their hand up to tell you that team member 1 is looking at them. Team member 1 shouts "why would I be looking at you, your slag". Team member 1 is asked to leave but they refuse and begin shouting about being picked on again. Your boss walks in to observe the meeting and later comments what a car crash it was and what adaptive methods could you adopt to help team members 1, 2 and 3 feel more comfortable because they have mentioned to him that they often don't know what's going on and that you never explain anything to them.

That’s it in a nutshell