AIBU to tell team members to forfeit their breaks

[Suedesofblue]

Team member 1: came unprepared to meeting and needed to use one of my pens. Unprofessional. She is being groomed for a role in another office where manager would definitely make her forfeit her breaks for that, so it’s important she learns now.

Team member 2: Left annotated document at home which means I have to fit it in tomorrow instead of today. It is only five minutes of work, but again that’s not the point. They should have remembered.

Team member 3: Briefing team and a team member takes his suit jacket off in the middle of it, which meant I had no choice but to disrupt the meeting for everyone in order to apprehend him.

This is bit of a bin fire. Not sure i understand what is being asked.

It's this, isn't it? 🥱

What is this reverse AI nonsense about schools ?

The number of people who do not understand this is outstanding. Well written OP.

Im one of them. Still dont if I'm honest. Guessing it is about if you transpose school rules to work rules but I still don't get it. Apples and oranges etc

i think you make your point well. It’s ridiculous that children have to lose their break time for things such as taking off their blazer. Absolutely insane really. it just shows how insane when you imagine similar reactions in the workplace!

is this the same person who hid a post about access for disabled people by using the words male and men instead of disabled? It wasn't great then and its boring now.

Yes, be an over punitive boss. Make them all anxious by punishing every little mistake. Then when there is a MH crisis amongst employees and they struggle to come into work and struggle regulating their emotions blame it all on bad parenting rather than recognising that it is the workplace that caused the issues.

I do know how difficult dyslexia is (my DB has it) so I apologise if my comment was upsetting to you.

Either this is a reverse or you are a disgusting bully

Eh say what now?

Im not sure if you mean outstanding or astounding? They have quite different meanings

I would rather sweep the streets than work for you. At least I might get treated like an adult.

Oh I seeeee. Sorry I don’t have kids, so I didn’t get this straight away. OP YANBU. I have never really understood why we expect far higher standards of behaviour from teenagers than from our adult colleagues and peers.

Is it?

Continually being unprepared for meetings would get you fired.
Continually not having work available at the specified time would get you fired.
Continually breaking company policy (whether you agreed with it or not) would get you fired.

Missing a few minutes of break to get the message across of being prepared and following rules is better than getting fired, no?

Because there's one adult to 30 children and they have to nip shit in the bud so some learning can actually happen. Thank goodness they do or school would be hellish for the majority of kids who do behave well and want to learn. If you have to basically crowd control as a manager in work you need to get the P45s out!

First I thought this was a strange joke, but then like others realised it’s probably about a school. I’m not sure why anyone would need to be ‘apprehended’ for taking off a blazer, given that it’s not a crime, but otherwise these can be fairly common school-based punishments.

I think there’s a balance here. I’m not a teacher who would give a detention for a forgotten pen (and it isn’t in our school rules to do so) but I would give one for missed homework - largely so the homework could be done in that time and I could have a conversation with the child to see if there were any barriers I could help with. You could say that that distinction which I choose to make there is somewhat arbitrary, but it’s about balance and what I feel will be most useful, as well as years of experience of what children tend to respond to.

Yes, school-based consequences are sometimes arbitrary, but with younger children especially the idea is to make a basic connection between action and consequence. It’s not always possible to give a more meaningful consequence - for example if a child repeatedly chooses not to engage in learning (and I mean chooses, not can’t), I don’t have a teacher time machine I can use to take them to the future so they can experience the feeling of not passing their exams. To compensate for my lack of time machine, I might give a sanction that means something to the child (e.g. they do not like to lose part of their break) and use the time to build a positive relationship and get into a more meaningful conversation about why we want them to do/not do x, y or z. I think what matters most is the education around the consequence - the conversation and support that goes with it.

It also helps for children to learn that in large organisations some rules exist mainly to allow the orderly running of that organisation. Some of the rules are practical - like walking on the left - but also schools are organisations where the many (children) significantly outnumber the few (teachers). They operate on an actually fairly fragile assumption that the many will not rebel significantly or en masse, which is necessary if children are to be educated.

I once overheard a colleague (who was an excellent teacher and widely liked by students) explaining to a class that the reason they weren’t allowed to wear nail varnish to school was so that they wouldn’t burn down the school. This was an obviously hyperbolic example but what she meant was that strict boundaries about seemingly unimportant things like nail polish means that when children want to test boundaries, which they do, the boundaries they usually push are fairly arbitrary and don’t cause much issue if broken.

As my DS started high school this year I’m much more aware of the need for order to get them through the school day. He’s making the link himself to kids who are never organised or on time and the level of disruption to teachers and the rest of the class’ learning. Blazers, missing pens etc aren’t the end of the world but cause disruption - I’m not someone who thinks school in any way mirrors the workplace, so the same rules can’t apply. There’s 1,200 kids in his school and there needs to be a sense of order. His school doesn’t create arbitrary rules, aren’t overly strict about uniform and the teachers seem to have good relationships with pupils but they are clear about why rules are there and it’s about getting everyone through the school week intact.

Let’s move on from missing breaks.

Team member 4: picked up a virus from team member 5 and ended up in hospital earlier in the year. Obviously team member 4 can’t go on the away day next month as he took time off when ill. Same for team member 6 who took time off for a bereavement.

Team member 7: Very conscientious. He is starting to get anxious over making mistakes due to our motivational board, where we write names of people who have made errors like forgetting a pen to motivate them to do better.

Team member 8: He needed to go toilet two hours after last going. Cheek of it - he hadn’t even applied to HR for a toilet pass.

Well you've clearly not taught in a school recently. Let me paint a clearer picture.

Team members 1, 2 and 3 burst into the meeting laughing and pushing and shoving one another. Team member 3 calls team member 1 a fat cunt When it's pointed how inappropriate that is is inappropriate and that they will have to fo overtime if it happens again that the meeting has already begun team member 1 says "I'm not doing anything, why are you always picking on me that's victimisation", team member 2 now swinging on his chair asks "why do we have to have a meeting about this, it's a load of bollocks anyway, my Mum says I don't have to do it if I don't want to". Meanwhile, team member 3 has pinched team membet 4's notebook and has made a paper airplane out of it. Team member 5 wants to go to the toilet and says they are going to piss all over the floor and it's their human right despite only being in the meeting 15 mins. Team member 6 puts their hand up to tell you that team member 1 is looking at them. Team member 1 shouts "why would I be looking at you, your slag". Team member 1 is asked to leave but they refuse and begin shouting about being picked on again. Your boss walks in to observe the meeting and later comments what a car crash it was and what adaptive methods could you adopt to help team members 1, 2 and 3 feel more comfortable because they have mentioned to him that they often don't know what's going on and that you never explain anything to them.

This is exhausting. Sorry. Just please come out and say what you mean. Or not I guess.

Then don't send your child to school. Home school them.

Or feel free to join the profession and offer your expertise. I'm sure you'd thrive and last more than 1/2 a day sorting out behaviour. 🙄

I really hope this is some kind of joke OP.

Did you recently use a cafe where women weren’t able to go OP?

Please god tell me this is some kind off reverse about your own shit manager?