To apply DC to a religious school although we aren't religious at all

[Playdoughy]

First off, we are not from UK, but have been living in London for a long time, DC born here.
Can't afford private school, as many I guess.
The free school (the only one we'd get in 100,% if based on catchment area) is a Catholic one, curriculum includes daily prayer etc...
We are not religious, not practicing. Looking at our background we are closely related to several major religions.
While we've heard that some people start going to church ahead of school age for their kids, just to get a spot at school - I thought that is sort of optional. Especially because all these schools also point out importance of diversity etc...
But looking at their curriculums - there is a portion of time that is actually dedicated to bible, praying etc... Does everyone attend? Is it mandatory?
I know I can go to an open day and find out about all that, but at this point I feel that we've grossly misjudged this - that it may be even considered rude to ask 😐

I would have a look at previous years admissions as you should be able to get a breakdown of how the places were allocated. Last year our local Catholic primary school offered 3 out of 30 places to 'any other children'. The majority of the places were offered to baptised children with a certificate of Catholic practice either within or outside of the catchment, and 2 places from other Christian denominations (my children don't go there but I looked at this kind of information when I was applying to schools). You should be able to find the numbers on your council website I think... it'll also give you an idea on whether the school is oversubscribed or not, and a rough idea of the diversity.

I would expect that the prayers and bible studies are mandatory though.

You need to look at the admissions criteria. Catchment doesn’t really come into it as qualifying catholics will be placed above you. Was yR full last year?

at ours it is baptised practising catholics, practising other Christian religions, LAC and then any other children.

You shouldn't need to go to an open day and ask. You should be able to look up the admissions criteria for the school (on the school website) and if admissions is coordinated by the local authority, you should also look on the local authority website and you should be able to find out how many children were admitted in each category (looked after, faith in catchment, not faith in catchment etc.) over the past few years to understand whether or not it would be necessary to start attending church regularly to get a place at the school.

Plenty of people do, but I really really really wish non religious people would stay out of religious schools and diluting them. They never stop to reflect why they are good schools that they would like their children to attend, they're sawing away at the branch upon which they're climbing. If children do attend and families decide they would like to embrace that religion then that is fantastic, but so many don't. I don't think it's morally the right thing to do, but - if this is the only way for its positive influence to ripple through society then so be it.

We are thinking of a Catholic school despite not being Catholic as well, and that's not our catchment school.

As someone from a European country, it is quite common and we want this school because we think they provide the best setting and quality of education for our children, over the other school in the area.

My husband is British, and told me that even in non-religious school they were doing prayers and hymns most days... Which is totally bonkers to me! But it means it won't be that different anyway.

One thing though is that you really need to see the school, look at their admission criteria, and talk to the headteacher. Because they are all run very differently.

I have heard colleagues in London going to church for months to get into the school, which for me is hypocritical and not a value I would want to teach to my children. I'm also wondering what integration will be like for the children long-term when they try to fit into a community they don't belong to.

The school we are considering is not like that at all, they are small school, with few pupils and only half are from Catholics families. They openly welcome children from all faiths, although obviously prioritise Catholic children when it comes to admission.

This is something you need to discuss with thr school about whether it's mandatory, it might just be they have an assembly and sing a couple of hymns ?
If you don't want your child exposed to thet then look at non religious schools.

While we've heard that some people start going to church ahead of school age for their kids, just to get a spot at school - I thought that is sort of optional.

Both schools and churches got wise to this many many years ago.

ALL schools myst do some sort of assemblies /worship based on a Christian ethos . A Catholic school would, I assume, do more.
I dont have any issue with any child attending a Catholic but dont, as a close friend did, then complain when one of the GCSEs had to be RE. She said ut was ridiculous and a waste of a gcse that her son could've used for a 'proper subject. I did ask what she thought a Catholic school would do.

Lol, that sense of superiority from the parents is what makes us hesitate actually. Like morals and values can only be defended by that religious community... It's very ignorant and hypocritical.

I have always thought this is an odd attitude. Most religions want to encourage people to join their religion. Surely spending 7 years teaching them in a religious school is the perfect way to do this. Otherwise you are literally just preaching to the converted!

I went to a Christian school even though my parents hadnt stepped into a church since they were children. Weekly chapel services, singing hymns, and Bible studies, every student went + there were no exceptions. This was only the 2010s too, so not that long ago.

I am not religious myself but it didn't adversely affect my education at all, if anything it was spiritually enlighting.

My children went to Catholic school. We were CofE when they first joined but quickly converted (no pressure from the school on this). Honestly I loved the sense of community from the school and the church. Seeing the teachers at Sunday Mass and them getting to see the pupils outside school.

Some view the hoop jumping as hypocritical and it’s widely known that a number of parents do the bare minimum to
bring their children up in the Catholic faith but, actually, the Church and the school don’t care. We were very active members of the Church and others weren’t but if the bare minimum for a child’s first holy communion is once a month attendance, we’re happy with once a month attendance.

For those of other faiths/none, they’re welcomed at the school. If you want to “tick some boxes” to get your child into
your preferred school you clearly support their education and, if there are spaces, that’s enough.

If you're not religious at all and have no wish for your children to be then I would avoid sending your child to a religious school.

Yes you can ask for your child to be withdrawn from any or all of the religious practices. But the school doesn't have to provide interesting or valuable alternative provision. So then your child is sat in an effective isolation in a classroom for example, reading, or colouring, or doing homework while their class is in the hall praying or whatever. It wouldn't be much fun to be that child, so singled out from the others.

Or you could let your child participate and then deal with the indoctrination. For my point of view, I couldn't send my child to a place where they'd be taught what I view as fairy stories as facts. I wouldn't want to start from that place when I'm trying to instill acceptance and respect for other people's beliefs which aren't our family's truth.

You wouldn't get into a Catholic school in my area without being Catholic. They tightened the criteria recently too.

It would also be very bad form to choose a Catholic school and opt out of religious elements. I don't even know if that would be possible.

Just sent your child to the nearest non-dom school.

If you don't like the religious aspect, but it is the school that your child is most likely to get a place at based on distance, then the sensible approach is to put it as one of your choices but not the top spot. Then you'll hopefully get a place at your preferred school, but if not, it's reasonable to have this one as a back up.

You can put it down as a choice. Whether you get a space or not will depend on how many Catholic children are applying. If numbers are low you'll get a space. If it's already full with Catholic children, you won't.

What are the other nearby schools like?

They're good because they're selective, not because they're god-fearing.

It was important to us to avoid a school like this for our child. I didn’t want our child to feel confused/ torn/ conflicted by being told about God as fact at school, despite knowing we don’t believe in God at home. Young children are very impressionable - I think it’s important that the ethos of a school matches your beliefs at home.

My children's school spend 10% of the week on religious education, go to Mass monthly. There are no exceptions, everyone must attend, it's in the school contract.
There is also a huge expectation that your child will make the First Holy Communion, this involves weekly evening classes plus mandatory Mass attendance every week for 6 months.
It's a huge commitment so think hard if you're not fully up for it.

It really is tome for church and state to be properly separated.

Why should religious schools still get funding; and are often the only school available for a child within a reasonable distance?

It truly is a disgrace that children should be forced into religious indoctrination just to go to their local school.

Our local Catholic primary school is one of the most oversubscribed schools in the Borough and they only take a handful of children who are not Catholic (my husband and son are Catholic, hence getting my a place). It’s a lovely school with a real sense of community and high standards but religion does permeate throughout the school. Assemblies are more religious than they were at my CofE primary school and they frequently have special services. There is also a close relationship with the local church.

For what it’s worth, my son knows that I don’t go to church or believe in god but accepts that people believe in different things. I do also really like the school and it’s been a fantastic and nurturing environment for DS.

They are but they soon make it their own minds I went to a very strict Catholic school it was a convent school and we used to go to the chapel for mass, sing hymns frequently a lot of my teachers were nuns ,I'm a very lapsed Catholic
My son also went to Catholic schools ,although they were far more relaxed than my old school ,he decided he was atheist at around 12.

I have no issue with non-believers sending their kids to faith schools, as long as you realise exactly what this entails. Bitching about the fact that your child has to attend religious assemblies and other things will only make you look stupid. If you’re not on board with that, send your kid to the comprehensive/academy/whatever down the road, and leave those places available for people who are fine with the faith aspect of a faith school.

Where I live 90% of the primary schools are church schools. Most accept any or no faith but often the Catholic ones are more prescriptive. The Catholic high schools take baptised Catholics first then other strong faiths and if there's any other places left you may be on with a slight chance. The only C of E high school insists on parents attending church 4 times a month. This has to be done 2 full years before applying and it has to be the same parent (not mum one week dad the next) and you have to sign a register! The school then ask for confirmation from the vicar and can ask for copy of register. Crazy but true and it sorts out the parents who are serious about their child's education not necessarily religion 🤔

While many schools and churches are aware of families doing this, talking to the vicar from a CofE church linked to an outstanding primary and good secondary- he was fine with that, actually encouraged it. Because his view was it gave him a couple of years with those parents in the church every Sunday to do his best to convert them. It gave him 7 years /12 years (reception to year 6 or reception to year 11) to “bring the good news” to children who would otherwise not have a chance to hear it.

It’s a common view amongst those who work in churches and faith schools. Which I sort of see.

So @Playdoughy- bigger question to ponder, how would you and your dh feel if your child has a different faith to you? If your child grows up to embrace this faith you don’t share.

If you send your child to a faith school, you are giving up control of their religious education. (Beyond what’s on the national curriculum.)