To apply DC to a religious school although we aren't religious at all

[Playdoughy]

First off, we are not from UK, but have been living in London for a long time, DC born here.
Can't afford private school, as many I guess.
The free school (the only one we'd get in 100,% if based on catchment area) is a Catholic one, curriculum includes daily prayer etc...
We are not religious, not practicing. Looking at our background we are closely related to several major religions.
While we've heard that some people start going to church ahead of school age for their kids, just to get a spot at school - I thought that is sort of optional. Especially because all these schools also point out importance of diversity etc...
But looking at their curriculums - there is a portion of time that is actually dedicated to bible, praying etc... Does everyone attend? Is it mandatory?
I know I can go to an open day and find out about all that, but at this point I feel that we've grossly misjudged this - that it may be even considered rude to ask 😐

It's terrible to think that our taxes are paying for these schools but our children aren't eligible to attend them.

We send our kids to a Catholic school. No problem with the religious element of it. Yes, there are lots of religious assemblies that my children complain about, but learning to sit through long, boring events without fidgeting and to paste a semi-interested smile on your face while mentally zoning out is a life skill imo, and one I'm pleased they're getting plenty of opportunity to develop at school.

Indeed. Personally I think all schools in receipt of public funding should have to allocate at least 30% of places on a "free" basis.

Catchment doesn’t usually come into play when it comes to priority of places in catholic schools.

It's perfectly reasonable to apply if you think the school is the right fit for your child.

Any religious criteria for school admissions have to be objectively fact-based and are not allowed to be based on what you believe or how strongly you believe it. Eg they can have a criteria for admissions categories about how often you go to church, but they can't require you to believe in what you do while you are there. Catholic schools usually also require that the child has been baptised.

However, if your decision is that this school is the right one, that includes the religious education element. It would not be reasonable to do this and then opt out of the religious aspects of the school

OP, if you send your child to a religious school, then it’s a given that you will have no objection to the religious education on offer. At my DC’s Catholic school, RE was compulsory at GCSE and there were regular masses and religious services. No surprise there, and you would not be expected to take communion - but you would be expected to attend. If you’re not prepared for your DC to do that, or to attend occasional services outside school, eg Christmas services, then don’t send your DC to such a school.

Some perform better because they are selective schools, not because they are religious.

Sooner we do away with the idea of schools funded by the public purse that are allowed to discriminate which kids are allowed to attend, the better.

My daughter got into a Catholic school that was usually oversubscribed, because her year had a low Catholic birth rate 🤷🏾‍♀️.

We are religious though, so had no issues with her saying prayers etc.
As it stands now, she embraced the whole thing and now sings in the church choir, and so do some of her school mates from other faiths. The schools/local churches can be very inclusive.

As others have stated, you need to check the stats to see how many non catholics have been given places in the last few years. With a falling birth rate you may be lucky ,but the catholic primary school near me reduced it's intake from 90 to 60 so now very few non catholics can get a place whereas even 7 years ago children of other faiths or non would have secured 10 to 15 places each year.

Oh give over, believing in an imaginary being isnt what makes the school good its just the additional hoop to jump through which serves as selection.

Religion has no place in state funded schools.

In a Catholic school, yes, everyone learns prayers every day, yes they learn hymns and yes, they will attend Mass. Your children will learn about the sacraments but will not be able to receive them. No, you can’t opt your children out. If you sign the admission contract with the school, you cannot then complain.

However, Jewish schools and Muslim schools and, I assume, C of E schools will have the same expectations.

I mean I wish our three nearest primary schools weren't state-funded faith schools, making the catchments of the nearest community schools too small to get into. We all want things we can't have, I guess.

Faith schools only perform better when they're able to exercise a degree of selection by applying faith selection criteria due yo over subscription. Like any form of selection, it selects out children from the most difficult and chaotic homes and the intakes are disproportionately better off.

There's nothing inherent to faith education that leads to better performance. Where schools aren't oversubscribed, they perform no better than community schools. It's the kids and parents that are the biggest drivers of performance, not religiosity.

I'm not religious at all but I think if you're going to send your kid to a religious school then you have to accept it comes with the territory and there's no way to opt out. If you're thinking of trying to opt out just send your child somewhere else.

My ex is a Hindu and is raising our daughter to know about her religion and culture. But she is also learning about Jesus at school, singing hymns, the whole nine yards.

There's no conflict between that and her feeling like she is a Hindu as she says "i just sing along and ignore it".

My view is that she will decide in time what's right for her but there's no harm learning about Hinduism and Christianity (and atheism 😀).

This discussion comes up often. Pro religious school supporters always talk about ‘choosing to send’ as though schools of every denomination and none are there
on every corner. The reality is that local people can find themselves excluded from their local school or attending that school
and being obliged to participate in religious activities that they do no wish to take part in. In my area a religious academy took over the local high school so the kids already there were drawn in and the alternative for parents not wishing to go to a religious school was to travel some distance to the next nearest non-religious high. It really is outrageous that my tax money is taken from me to support a school my child is excluded from or marginalised in and the smug comments about about going elsewhere if you are not on board are infuriating.

Most catholics schools will have the odd non catholic so no guarantee of a place unless you live very close.

All the church schools around here do talk about faith, god, prayers said daily etc. and for secondaries taking RE is compulsory - so it depends really ARE you atheist and think 'god' is nonsense? Probably not for you.
Are you agnostic and believe in a 'higher power' and are happy for your children to? Probably ok.

If someone sends their child to a Church school of any religion they should not then start expecting their child to be excused from aspects of the curriculum relating to that religion. When a child is admitted to a school the parents enter into a contract based on that school's published rules etc., too many start complaining about what they agreed to.

Is this true?! I would not expect my child to be attending any ‘worship’ if he went to a non-church state school.

I would expect him to attend RE to understand different types of religion from a neutral perspective.

Church schools are by definition selective, if they prioritise baptism and church attendance.

They exclude the chaotic, those who can’t get of bed on a Sunday morning etc etc.

I doubt very much that achievement in the school will be ‘diluted’ by the children if parents who will pull stunts to get their kid into the school of choice - they will also be parents who support education etc.

I also suspect that the good performance of (many) church schools simply reflects the cohort, rather than superior teaching or any inherent superiority of religious kids and staff.

To my mind it is really not acceptable that state funded schools select on the basis of church attendance , and un Christian to keep kids out and demand segregation.

(parent of very high achieving Dc who attended good but fully inclusive and representative S London community schools)

Thank you all, I get a better idea now how it would look like.
I am mentioning catchment area because we literally share a wall with the school in question. So if they end up having spots for non Catholics, we have good chances of getting it.
Yes it is a good school, and we are contemplating about putting it down as a choice - this is why I wrote here.
Some good questions raised, which I don't know all the answers to - e.g
How I'd feel if dc ends up embracing religion. Honestly - I'd hope that won't happen, but you never know.
I feel that if there is 5-10 kids there in similar position then indoctrination is less likely, and I'd feel better, I'll check the stats from previous years.

For those asking me about why would I choose to enroll if I am not planning to embrace - well I wouldn't if I had a choice 🤷🏼‍♀️ we are not really in a safe catchment area for any non religious school, and where does that leave us.

OP: as pp have said, start with the published Admissions policy. All the Catholic schools I know of prioritise on religious attendance and engagement, and distance is largely irrelevant.

And require baptism before 6m so a quick few weeks turning up to Mass will not swing it.

Also the Catholic schools I know devote time to preparing for confirmation, for example. Though if they accept non Catholics there is probably facility to sit in the library during those sessions.

Where in earth do you live in London that your only available state school is Catholic?

I assume you are taking about primary?

So what do you recommend for parents who have kids in schools taken over by religious academies? And what about local people whose closest/only school is religious?

Sending your child somewhere else is often not a practical option.
If these schools want state funding they should provide an ipt pit from religious observance for every child whose parents wish this.

Opt out ...

It's still a legal requirement - which is, of course, completely fucking ridiculous - for schools to have some sort of collective worship.

In reality of course, this is widely ignored.