Page 5 | To apply DC to a religious school although we aren't religious at all

Playdoughy · 2025-10-03T09:06:40+00:00

First off, we are not from UK, but have been living in London for a long time, DC born here. Can't afford private school, as many I guess. The free school (the only one we'd get in 100,% if based on catchment area) is a Catholic one, curriculum includes daily prayer etc... We are not religious, not practicing. Looking at our background we are closely related to several major religions. While we've heard that some people start going to church ahead of school age for their kids, just to get a spot at school - I thought that is sort of optional. Especially because all these schools also point out importance of diversity etc... But looking at their curriculums - there is a portion of time that is actually dedicated to bible, praying etc... Does everyone attend? Is it mandatory? I know I can go to an open day and find out about all that, but at this point I feel that we've grossly misjudged this - that it may be even considered rude to ask 😐

Ohtheplaces · 04/10/2025 13:03

ICareNothingForYourCameras · 04/10/2025 12:52

I'm an atheist working in a CofE school. I join in singing hymns because I enjoy singing, but just sit respectfully silent during prayers (and usually zone out a bit during collective worship). I have a few colleagues who are the same, and there is a Muslim child in my class who has clearly been told by her parents to be respectful but not participate in prayers. We don't have any pupils who are actively withdrawn from CW by their parents and they would just be sent to sit outside the hall/ classroom with a book if they were.

Re not being a Christian but working at a CofE school, I needed a job, this one sounded good and the pay was more than my last job...

I previously worked in 3 non-religious schools and assemblies were based on teaching good values like respect, being kind to others etc, or an 'Achievement assembly' every week where awards were given out or the teacher in charge talked about someone in the news who had achieved something worthwhile. God wasn't mentioned once and any songs sung were secular (S Club 7 Reach for The Stars was repeatedly sung).

OFSTED doesn't actually look at collective worship as part of their inspection framework so non-religious schools don't bother bringing Christianity into it especially when, like my previous schools, they have a very diverse intake in terms of religious and cultural backgrounds.

Yes, teachers are also impacted in their careers by having religious affiliation in schools. But I am laughing at s club 7… no one of any religion deserves to have that inflicted on them!

Itsnotallaboutyoulikeyouthink · 04/10/2025 13:05

My kids went to a catholic school. They are not catholic their father and that side of the family are. They will do gcse divinity and they will follow the catholic events. But no one is forced to become catholic, they will just come away with a good understanding of another religion which isn’t a bad thing imo. You do have to be careful about some of the views of teachers ie abortion there was def a bias when taught I felt, that it was wrong and I remember having to have more non biased conversation with my son about it.

I do think that catholic schools have high standards. I also think they are good for boys. My ex and my late husband all catholics and all of their friends were so respectful towards women.‘could be coincidence but it’s something I see also in my own son now too.

Psychologymam · 04/10/2025 13:15

Ohtheplaces · 04/10/2025 12:40

I have been on this thread from the start thank you! In England -and Wales I can’t identify with the anti-catholic sentiment that you mention at all. How would anyone even know who you were married to? NI is different. I can accept that there is a religious hierarchy in the Uk with those of no religion being at the bottom of the pile (no religion = no values in some peoples heads), Cof E at the top as it is intrinsically part of the state, other Christian faiths coming in next, then other religions coming in next. Re: no one complaining about Cof E schools - when a local high was taken over by a c of e academy, there were complaints a plenty.

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It’s certainly there - both my husband and I were told by NHS patients they didn’t want an Irish doctor (in less polite terms which referenced religion - not that I’m particularly religious ? !). Hilariously when I asked my colleague come in, they changed their mind sharpish - Exactly as you said, at least I was better than the non Christian in their minds. To be fair, isolated incidents and nothing compared to what my non white, non Christian colleagues would have experienced. In terms of the marriage part - I’m referencing the royal family! They check out who they marry and you must step out of line of succession in marrying a catholic (other religions are fine I think!)
I think as an Irish person I’m probably aware of how prohibiting access to education was used by the British in Ireland as a weapon so probably more sensitive to it than maybe is needed today - for all the massive wrongs perpetrated by the Catholic Church (and some were horrific), they offered the possibility of education to catholics.

mdwitscga · 04/10/2025 13:29

How I'd feel if dc ends up embracing religion. Honestly - I'd hope that won't happen, but you never know.
I feel that if there is 5-10 kids there in similar position then indoctrination is less likely, and I'd feel better, I'll check the stats from previous years

If that's your attitude (and it's fair enough if that's how you feel, I'm not criticizing you), you shouldn't send your child to the Catholic school.

Ohtheplaces · 04/10/2025 13:49

Psychologymam · 04/10/2025 13:15

It’s certainly there - both my husband and I were told by NHS patients they didn’t want an Irish doctor (in less polite terms which referenced religion - not that I’m particularly religious ? !). Hilariously when I asked my colleague come in, they changed their mind sharpish - Exactly as you said, at least I was better than the non Christian in their minds. To be fair, isolated incidents and nothing compared to what my non white, non Christian colleagues would have experienced. In terms of the marriage part - I’m referencing the royal family! They check out who they marry and you must step out of line of succession in marrying a catholic (other religions are fine I think!)
I think as an Irish person I’m probably aware of how prohibiting access to education was used by the British in Ireland as a weapon so probably more sensitive to it than maybe is needed today - for all the massive wrongs perpetrated by the Catholic Church (and some were horrific), they offered the possibility of education to catholics.

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ah yes, I can see how being Irish may bring out the prejudice. Hopefully not as much as in previous decades but yes, still there played for laughs and otherwise. Not sure most people in England/Wales would be able to tell if you were Protestant or Catholic and would have been happy to discriminate against both, so more about offensive national stereotyping than religion maybe but yes, prejudice against Catholics was (is?) very much part of the fabric in Ireland and I do see where you are coming from.

and yes, the Royal Family. Where do I start on that? The epitome of inequality. Fear not. Obviously I am getting rid of that shower when I bring in my secular state😉

Psychologymam · 04/10/2025 14:16

Ohtheplaces · 04/10/2025 13:49

ah yes, I can see how being Irish may bring out the prejudice. Hopefully not as much as in previous decades but yes, still there played for laughs and otherwise. Not sure most people in England/Wales would be able to tell if you were Protestant or Catholic and would have been happy to discriminate against both, so more about offensive national stereotyping than religion maybe but yes, prejudice against Catholics was (is?) very much part of the fabric in Ireland and I do see where you are coming from.

and yes, the Royal Family. Where do I start on that? The epitome of inequality. Fear not. Obviously I am getting rid of that shower when I bring in my secular state😉

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To be fair, isolated incidents and at odds with the majority of wonderful people we met and worked with! A secular democracy with leaders voted on merit sounds great - I’ll vote for you!

Mischance · 04/10/2025 18:11

KnickerlessParsons · 04/10/2025 11:46

Our DCs went to a CoE primary school and they seemed to be in church every other week, and in between the vicar came to them. RC schools are probably the same.

As a PP said - have a think about why religion affiliated schools seem to do better. Kids from religious families aren’t born more intelligent, more caring etc.

There is no reason to think that it is because of the religion. They just get extra funding from their diocese. Better that ALL state schools should be properly funded by the state with no strings attached.

Mischance · 04/10/2025 18:14

RainbowBagels · 04/10/2025 07:32

Are there places where the only school in Catholic? I can believe areas where the only school is C of E as its the State religion but it would be very odd ( and remiss of the LA) to only have a Catholic school in an area.

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Round here .... rural ... finding a non aligned school within sensible travel distance is very difficult indeed. Parents who have no religious beliefs are hard out to find a school

Mischance · 04/10/2025 18:14

Put not out

Mischance · 04/10/2025 18:16

ICareNothingForYourCameras · 04/10/2025 12:52

I'm an atheist working in a CofE school. I join in singing hymns because I enjoy singing, but just sit respectfully silent during prayers (and usually zone out a bit during collective worship). I have a few colleagues who are the same, and there is a Muslim child in my class who has clearly been told by her parents to be respectful but not participate in prayers. We don't have any pupils who are actively withdrawn from CW by their parents and they would just be sent to sit outside the hall/ classroom with a book if they were.

Re not being a Christian but working at a CofE school, I needed a job, this one sounded good and the pay was more than my last job...

I previously worked in 3 non-religious schools and assemblies were based on teaching good values like respect, being kind to others etc, or an 'Achievement assembly' every week where awards were given out or the teacher in charge talked about someone in the news who had achieved something worthwhile. God wasn't mentioned once and any songs sung were secular (S Club 7 Reach for The Stars was repeatedly sung).

OFSTED doesn't actually look at collective worship as part of their inspection framework so non-religious schools don't bother bringing Christianity into it especially when, like my previous schools, they have a very diverse intake in terms of religious and cultural backgrounds.

Put not out

Mischance · 04/10/2025 18:21

x2boys · 04/10/2025 08:09

Well it's a belief, and others have different beliefs
Also give children some credit they will make their own minds up about Wether they belive or not ,I certainly did as did my son.

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The problem is that in school children are taught that 2 + 2 is 4, and at the same time that a man came back from the dead and still lives as a nebulous spirit.
The two things are qualitatively different and a child cannot make that distinction. And nor should they have to.
The things that they are taught in school should be objectively true.

Mischance · 04/10/2025 18:22

Tolerating faith schools means that we have to make assumptions that religion is benign. It clearly is not.

Ramblingaway · 04/10/2025 18:28

I might have missed it, but nobody seems to have mentioned the loss of curriculum time. Cof E and none faith schools spend 10% of curriculum time on religious education. Catholic schools do 10% RE, and then 10% religious instruction. So 20% of teaching time overall. That means less time for everything else.

ClaredeBear · 04/10/2025 18:31

Religious school often means they’re taught one worldview as absolute truth, limiting their exposure to diverse perspectives. Critical thinking thrives on questioning, debate, and exploring different ideas but kids learn to accept claims without evidence, rather than analysing or challenging them.

they rarely teach about other religions or secular philosophies in depth, if at all, potentially leaving kids with a narrow understanding of the world. Without exposure to a range of beliefs, they miss the chance to develop empathy, compare ideas, and form their own reasoned conclusions. Children should be taught to think for themselves I get you’re not religious it this is the fact of the matter.

budgiegirl · 04/10/2025 19:00

Plenty of people do, but I really really really wish non religious people would stay out of religious schools and diluting them

And I really, really, really wish that schools were not allowed to base their entrance critieria upon which religion a child has. It's utterly ridiculous in this day and age that they are able to do this. Why should a child not be able to attend it's nearest state school purely because of that child's religion (or lack of)?

rwalker · 04/10/2025 19:01

ClaredeBear · 04/10/2025 18:31

Religious school often means they’re taught one worldview as absolute truth, limiting their exposure to diverse perspectives. Critical thinking thrives on questioning, debate, and exploring different ideas but kids learn to accept claims without evidence, rather than analysing or challenging them.

they rarely teach about other religions or secular philosophies in depth, if at all, potentially leaving kids with a narrow understanding of the world. Without exposure to a range of beliefs, they miss the chance to develop empathy, compare ideas, and form their own reasoned conclusions. Children should be taught to think for themselves I get you’re not religious it this is the fact of the matter.

In that case send them to a different one

stichguru · 04/10/2025 19:11

It isn't mandatory, but there is provision for church schools to put church attendance on the priority list so you are less likely to get a place if you don't. I would be actively trying to get a place at a different school though as your child would either have to be involved to some extent in religious practices within school, or would be left out of lots of things.

Mischance · 04/10/2025 19:35

It isn't mandatory, but there is provision for church schools to put church attendance on the priority list so you are less likely to get a place if you don't

This is so wrong.

Mischance · 04/10/2025 19:37

The other major problems is that sometimes a parent sends a child to a non-aligned by choice then finds that this school gest absorbed into a multi-academy trust that is religion based.

Arran2024 · 04/10/2025 19:39

Your child will get a place at a "free" school - the local authority has to provide a place. It may not be your nearest school.

ClaredeBear · 04/10/2025 19:41

rwalker · 04/10/2025 19:01

In that case send them to a different one

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I believe OP was asking about pros and cons of sending her children to a religious school. That’s what I was responding to. It’s fine to have your opinion, of course, but the rest of us have been invited to do so too.

ClaredeBear · 04/10/2025 19:44

budgiegirl · 04/10/2025 19:00

Plenty of people do, but I really really really wish non religious people would stay out of religious schools and diluting them

And I really, really, really wish that schools were not allowed to base their entrance critieria upon which religion a child has. It's utterly ridiculous in this day and age that they are able to do this. Why should a child not be able to attend it's nearest state school purely because of that child's religion (or lack of)?

I really, really wish schools were mixed so that child re in religious schools receive a well-rounded education where they’re encouraged to apply critical thinking to their studies.

FabulousWealthyTart · 04/10/2025 19:44

Yeah, it’s ethically wrong to pretend to follow a particular faith, when you absolutely don’t believe in their God. It undermines those whose faith means so much to them, in my opinion…and I speak as an Atheist.

NoSoupForU · 04/10/2025 19:48

I really don't think it's right to push for enrollment at a faith school and then try to opt out of that faith. Actually I think it is very wrong as the faith forms the ethos for the school, and you've taken a place that could have been filled by a child who would take up the full curriculum and ethos.

Flakey99 · 04/10/2025 20:05

BlueJuniper94 · 03/10/2025 11:05

Plenty of people do, but I really really really wish non religious people would stay out of religious schools and diluting them. They never stop to reflect why they are good schools that they would like their children to attend, they're sawing away at the branch upon which they're climbing. If children do attend and families decide they would like to embrace that religion then that is fantastic, but so many don't. I don't think it's morally the right thing to do, but - if this is the only way for its positive influence to ripple through society then so be it.

I strongly disagree.

Dividing people on religious grounds always leads to conflict and harm.

I think it’s vital that more non religious children go to religious schools because then maybe there’s a tiny chance that the religious zealots might finally realise that they’re actually very wrong about their superiority complex.

My DS went to a Catholic Primary school. We’re not religious in the slightest. He didn’t take part in the religious ceremonies but he got top marks in religion because he reads a lot.

Some of the worst bullies at secondary school attended the Catholic Primary. All those Masses they attended had zero effect on their moral compass.
They still turned out little shits.