Are you raising a child with dual heritage? Sense check needed.

[PoliteSquid]

I don’t know how to ask this without sounding really patronising, but please educate me.
Someone in my fitness class was talking about her DD who is 6. They had been to a World Cup rugby match. Her DD noticed the flags and asked if they were there for the rugby. Her mum said they were there because some people don’t like black and brown people like her DD!!!! The mum is white, so I guess the bio dad must be black or Asian.
Is that the kind of conversations people are having to have with their very young kids? It has shocked me. Maybe I’m out of touch even more because my kids are young adults so I’ve forgotten how much primary school age kids know.

It's uncomfortable, but if the family treats racial slights as easily deniable or something that shouldn't be mentioned, the children may feel unsafe or that they won't be believed when they experience adversity - and they will.

And if they don't feel believed, it will bring about a deep sense of unfairness, erode their self-esteem and be detrimental to their academic outcomes.

Studies show that by 6 years old, children are already aware of stereotypes and instances of discrimination.

Food for thought.

Actually at an international rugby match where England were playing, I’d say yes, it’s about the rugby. But we all know that most of the people flying England flags outside of sporting events at the moment, are doing so because they are trying to intimidate black and brown people.

I too am starting to have these conversations with my mixed race 7 year old, because it is dangerous not to. I held out for as long as I could but with Reform on the rise and everyday discourse about migrants (often code for ethnic minorities) becoming more and more aggressive, I have no choice but to say something. A friend with a DD of a similar mixed background to my daughter had some horrible man call her daughter a half-breed. So my DD has to be gently warned what she may be facing.

God knows how I will have the conversation about race if Reform win the election. “Yes, your prime minister hates you and enough others do too such that he is PM.” So depressing.

You can think what you like, but how about listening to the experiences of those who go through life, experiencing racism, and the effect that it has on them. It is like a Man saying that sexism is not a problem, because he does not have to suffer it! It is so easy to minimise racism, and think it is not a problem when you do not have to endure it, in your life.

My children have dual heritage and I would never phrase it to them as bluntly as 'some people don't like people with black/brown skin', but more as 'some people are not as respectful as they should be of people who they see as different to themselves' and use it as an opportunity to explore if they have witnessed or experienced anything like this, how they felt and how they could potentially respond. Flags can be flown for many reasons, some positive (sports, celebrating battle of Britain and us beating a potential oppressor, rememberemce day etc) and some negative (racism), and I would teach them not to assume a person's intentions without knowing them.

Well said, @LadyKenya.

I'm in no way minimising it at all and I am listening, the person I quoted agreeing with is a person of colour.

I just wonder whether putting those thoughts of people not liking them in their heads at such a young age is the right thing to do but obviously it's up to everyone to make up their own minds on what's best for their family.

Sounds spot on!

Well put.

But it's true.

Being disliked or worse for your skin colour feels even worse if you think it's because there's something else unlikeable about you, trying to work out why you're being treated the way you are, concluding you're just a bad, unlikeable person.

It is not about putting those sorts of thoughts into young minds imo. More about preparing them, in an age appropriate way, as they are growing up, about racism, and the way to try to deal with it, if, as, and when it happens. It is not about telling them that they have to be fearful, suspicious of everybody etc. But this is the reality of lots Poc in this Country. There will always be some Poc who claims never to have had racism happen to them.🤔

You are so right, thank you.

It’s not “putting those thoughts of people not liking them in their heads at such a young age”. It’s the reality and having these conversations is an attempt to help them to navigate the world and what they have no choice but to face. It’s about safety too, as violence is a real possibility. None of us want to have these conversations with our children because it is unbelievably sad, but given what is happening all around us, we have to.

We're a white household and I've explained to my kids that the appearance of flags near us is an aggressive and racist gesture when the kids asked why they had appeared. I think it's important that the kids understand that the sudden appearance of flags is not a neutural or positive statement of national pride. I also want my kids to be aware of how their non-white friends might be feeling about the appearance of flags and the worry that must bring.

I'm sad to see national flags being used like this- the St George's cross has had negative connotations for as long as I can remember (grew up in the BNP era) but I've been disappointed to see Saltires being raised here so that may be heading the same way. Scotland has always felt more tolerant of immigration but it feels like that is starting to change.

Absolutely, we all do what we believe to be best for our kids at the time - we can't possibly know about how they will feel about it later. We also can't ever know how they might have felt if we had done things differently.

I definitely don't regret having sent dd to her idyllic little primary school where kids of all ethnicities were integrated so beautifully. I maintain the belief that it was good for dd to see how that can happen. I just wish that we had done more to prepare her for the world outside that lovely bubble.

I think the very best thing you can do for your kids as they grow up is really listen to them and respect and accept their feelings on these subjects. I found that I had to work really hard on not being defensive about the choices that we had made and to just accept the validity of what dd was feeling at any given time. Being mixed race is fabulous in many ways, and dd really loves the blend of her two different cultures, but there are also challenges and complexities which neither DH nor I had fully understood when she was younger. You do your best, and you learn as you go along!

With the overt rise of hatred so apparent right now, it is so important that our Children are not sent out into the World, on the daily, without a solid sense of who they are, and the resources to understand, and cope, when they encounter such hateful attitudes, and instances.

She's being truthful though isn't she. The flags aren't all there for the rugby, or the women's football either. In fact the men putting these flags up aren't very likely to be cheering for any women's sports at all... The reality for her child is that she is going to face discrimination.

My English through and through, born and raised, friend who happens to also be a doctor was has been told several times in the last few weeks that she should either 'go home' or is going to have to 'go home' soon. She says it's getting to be the way it was when she was a kid and being called a 'p*ki' at school.

I agree.

My kids are mixed, and my daughter recently asked me about the flags. I told her that, for me, it’s not about skin colour. The people I know use the flag as a symbol of unity, not division. Of course, there are always some who try to use it to create division, but that’s not what it stands for to us.

It is like things are taking a step, or two backwards. It is so sad that things are heading in that hateful direction, once again.

Yes sure if something actually happens which is racist yes it needs to be discussed. But for flags which could be flying for any reason. And it is debatable even among adults whether it’s because they ‘hate black and brown people’.

What happens when this child sees the flags flying on the town hall or government. Or actually for rugby or football. Are they really going to understand the nuance and complexity of this or just see flag and think all these people hate me.

Thats awful!

Can 6 year olds process that! Many still believe in Santa for gods sake.

I do think as a white family we will need to think about how we address race/ racism generally as we are wholly unprepared. However the more I think about it the more crazy I think it is wrt the flags.

In the specific case of the flags, I don't think that is worthy of intervention. They will just see flags and probably won't notice them, and if they do, you can just explain that it's the Georges Cross and that it's the English flag.

The necessary intervention is when they feel that something is amiss in how they have been treated or spoken to by a peer, teacher or adult. This is when having weekly check-ins with them is key as they allow you to see how they're doing, how their relationships are evolving, and whether they have been subject to discriminatory behaviour.

In particular, it's wise to look out for references to their skin tone, hair, facial features, social isolation and emotional bullying, and for teachers not calling on them when they raise their hand or applying draconian behavioural sanctions.

Most importantly, you want to be building up their self-esteem and pride in the black side of their heritage. For boys, telling them about Barack Obama, Lewis Hamilton, David Lammy, etc. is beneficial. For girls, telling them about Misty Copeland, Naomi Osaka, Rosalind Brewer (ex-Starbucks COO, ex-Walgreens Boots CEO), etc., is great.

This way, when bigots try to erode their self-esteem, they will have a resilient foundation of pride in themselves to defend and rebuff that emotionally.

So yes, you will have to formulate a plan for addressing race and racism. You are on here posting and asking questions, so you are taking the rights steps!

The raise the flag campaign was founded by former EDL, NF, Britain First. It’s got far right fascism and white supremacy written all over it, stepping back into the ugly racism of the 1980s. It’s really depressing to see some white people sucked into thinking this is a nice campaign about unity and ‘British Values’ and it’s abhorrent the way the campaign is making our British black and brown people feel (not to mention the migrants and refugees living here).

Thank you, this thread had been food for thought as you say and that’s a good tip. I feel at some stage we need to have a family discussion about this so we are all consistent with our approach when needed.

Thank you - for engaging with this difficult subject so thoughtfully.

I have professional expertise in this area, but not lived experience. But I'll chip in when I can!