Are you raising a child with dual heritage? Sense check needed.

[PoliteSquid]

I don’t know how to ask this without sounding really patronising, but please educate me.
Someone in my fitness class was talking about her DD who is 6. They had been to a World Cup rugby match. Her DD noticed the flags and asked if they were there for the rugby. Her mum said they were there because some people don’t like black and brown people like her DD!!!! The mum is white, so I guess the bio dad must be black or Asian.
Is that the kind of conversations people are having to have with their very young kids? It has shocked me. Maybe I’m out of touch even more because my kids are young adults so I’ve forgotten how much primary school age kids know.

I'm glad my mother didn't put these self hating doubts into my head when I was little and learning about the world. So thankfully I grew up not believing my skin colour, or anyone else's, was a big deal.

I was an overthinker so I imagine I'd be worried all the time about simple everyday things that have a million explanations, like whether that woman didn't smile because of my skin colour, or if that kid didn't want to play with me because of my skin colour.

It's almost indoctrination and instilling fear from such a young age, shameful. No wonder divisions are only increasing and not getting better despite all the so called 'awareness' now.

It wasn't at a rugby match. The mother and child had watched rugby (possibly on telly, possibly at a stadium) and separately th child noticed flags and asked if it was because of rugby.

@PastaAllaNorma Clearly says attending in person World Cup Rugby Match.

i’m glad you wrote this because I was starting to think that I was going mad.

No, I would not tell my mixed race children that flags at a rugby game are there because these random strangers hate her. I cannot fathom saying such a thing. We actually put the england flag up too sometimes when the world cup is on. My children might be mixed race but it is their flag too.

Edited to add: if the flags are there for the protests not sport we would just tell our children some people want less immigration because the country is small and not everybody has enough of the things that they need, but also balance this with discussions about how immigrants (which we are) can be good for a country too.

My DC are mixed race, but older. We have discussed the flags and reform a lot. My DC know I cannot stand Farage, and that was long before the latest anti immigration movement. It saddens me to see all the flags, even in my fairly multi cultural town, dread to think what it’s like for those living in an area where they are more a minority. I’ve deliberately stalled moving to a cheaper area for the last 15yrs and will be paying a mortgage into retirement as I didn’t want my mixed race DC growing up in the area I did. It is a worry for me when they are out and about, and for my young adults nieces who have experienced a lot of Islamophobia. It’s so sad what is happening right now in the UK.

We live in a city where a nine year old Sikh girl was recently shot with an air rifle in a racist attack and is now too scared to leave the house. She wasn’t protected by not mentioning race. And yes I think the flags and the increase in racism is linked. That girl was born in this country, her parents were probably born in this country. The flag cretins don’t care.
It’s never been about illegal migrants, it’s always been about race.
I talk to my white children about raise as they need to know to call out racism, to question systems which are biased, to be anti-racist and feel uncomfortable with their privilege at times. It’s not constant ear bashing but these are conversations all of us need to have with our children growing up in a much more divided society than I feel it was in the 90s.

Which are your kids, black or brown OP?

Made me tearful

We’re white British. That’s why I asked for the sense check. My ‘kids’ are young adults and I’m out of touch with what it’s like raising very young children.

I was taken aback when she told me, but has shone a spotlight on my own ignorance to these things.

Clearly I’m naive and/or out of touch. Thank you for explaining. In my head little children need protecting from this stuff but I recognise that doesn’t do them any favours in the long term.

I remember the BNP and the bloody awful stuff they said and did. We were taught about it and discussed it in school but I was in secondary.

I appreciate you all taking the time to reply.

I can guarantee about 99.9% of those people using the flags in this way also don't like black and brown people. It is not just about illegal migration.

My kids are mixed race (they don’t like the term shared heritage). By year 2 my daughter had already experienced racist abuse at school so I feel these discussions should take place early and often. I heartily sick of the bullshit they encounter. As the white parent I won’t ever fully understand how they feel.

If they were at a rugby match, though, you’re always going see a lot of flags.
That’s a different context to the ‘flags on lampposts’, i would have thought.

I have a 6 nearly 7 year old and we’ve talked about the the flags in similar terms when he asked.

My children faced racism well before 6 years old, so yes I had these conversations before that age.

The problem with saying something like that to children is it doesn’t quite paint the full picture of what the nationalist sentiment is behind the flags.

Whilst I agree there is a racist undertone I don’t think I’d go straight in with comments like ‘they don’t want r you’. I would explain that currently we have a lot of people arriving in the country from other countries around the world who want to live here and some people who already live in this country feel frustrated for these reasons’’ The flags are up as a visual to show those feelings and remind the government that they are meant to represent English people. Then the conversation could flow from there.

Is there anything we can do to protect our children? I'm frightened.

We're brown, not black and I'm not on the Black Mumsnetters board as I understood that wasn't appropriate.

(30 odd years ago my mum was told she was black as she wasn't white but then terminology changed.)

We moved from a mixed city to a much less mixed, very lovely, seaside town a few years ago. I am really worried for my 11 child with SEN who is such an obvious visual target. I don't know how to protect them.

Wake up then.

@PoliteSquid i think it is a valid question to ask. I think everyone has a right to have educate their children about what is going on in the world. It feels like a very toxic place right now and I am of the view that educating and empowering children in an age appropriate way is better than pretending things don’t exist to “protect” them. We don’t know the woman in questions background, what her and potentially her daughter have already gone through, or what the follow up conversation would have been. I do agree that if that was the only discussion that was had then it does seem blunt and likely to cause confusion / upset to the child and I hope that the Mum would have followed this up with some reassurance / allowed time for questions etc.

Whether or not it is an overreach re the flags being at a national sports game is tricky. What I do know is as a black girl who grew up in a majority white town in the 1990s, I would never have questioned flags being up for any other reason that for national support. The fact to me that the girl is even asking why they’re there suggests a more nuanced conversation needs to be had. I probably would have started with asking why she had asked because she may have heard something or be worried about something (easy to say that when not in the situation). I will be having age appropriate conversations with my child when she’s old enough - I’m not saying everyone has to but with social media and then going to school etc there’s not too much “protecting” that can occur. I have teen/ pre-teen nieces / nephews that had to be told not to go into the city they have grown up because of anti immigrant protests where a lot of racist things were being said and I didn’t want them around that. If you don’t have these conversations early i think it makes it harder in the long run for the kids.

It’s easy for people to say “the flags are anti immigrant, not racist” but ultimately every non white person in the UK is an immigrant whether they’ve been here since the slave trade or due to wind rush, or other arrangements made by British government following decolonisation.
Whilst I don’t speak for all people of colour, whether it’s intended or not the flags and protests do feel like an attack on me and my family.

I think unless you’re from the vulnerable group that’s being targeted ultimately you don’t know what it’s like. There’s a thread on at the moment about the attacks in Manchester showing that there is a rise in antisemitism. Initially I thought, that can’t be true because the Manchester arena / Southport attack wasn’t targeted. It’s probably a single extremist with maybe mental health issues. But then I had to check myself and think - how do I know what it feels like to be Jewish right now? It must be scary. If my child asked about the attack yesterday I’m sure how I would explain it would be different to how someone who was Jewish would.

Hmm nope. I think we need to be more honest about what those flags are about.

Of course, you're right that little children - all children - need protecting from this stuff. But they need to be protected by our society doing more to tackle racism, not by parents pretending it doesn't exist.

Sadly, many young children will experience racism, or witness it, at a very young age, so it is important for parents to talk to them about it in age appropriate ways.

I'm afraid I have a bit of a problem with this logic because it seems to be saying the most important thing for the parent is to help their young child understand how some people feel about flags and what they represent and about other people wanting to move countries.

There's another equally truthful message about you, the non white child and your physical, emotional and social safety. Because of the colour of your skin someone may say 'Go back to where you came from' no matter how many generations of your family were born here and your white friend from another country will probably not hear this just walking down the street.

As parents shouldn't we communicate messages about safety first?

Or am I mistaken? Am I wrong to be frightened?

Posting this feels a bit scary but the thread has really touched a nerve.

(Writing this has just given me a different perspective. In more peaceful times many flags were a symbol of unity, diversity, pride, inclusion and celebration. In these divided and conflict filled times they are symbolising quite different values)

Re. flags. I discussed this with my mixed race children, and said it was a real shame that the St George or Union flag can't be exhibited without some people associating it with racism. No other flag of the UK gets that response.

[EDIT - I also explained to my children why people are currently upset in the UK. As soon as anyone mentions safety issues from undocumented men entering the country, they're shut down as racist. That's not fair and creates a bigger divide. Discussion and listening is the key to understanding views. Name calling and instant labels creates discord]

I grew up in the 80s when the NF used the flag as its symbol. It hurt, and it scared me. However, it's my national flag and what a shame it would be if this bothered me now. What a victory to those racists trying to empower a symbol that doesn't belong to only them.

So, I have discussed racism with my children. I have told them of my personal experiences. They are aware because they're often questioned - politely - as to their heritage (they have olive skin). (That's not racism in my opinion, that's curiosity)

Education is power as they say. I've never installed fear into my children about racism, but discussed why people can act that way, and to be prepared and respond accordingly. Don't treat aggression with aggression. Educate if the situation demands it. Be prepared to walk away. Be ready to report. Stand together against racism.

It is a part of their make up, but not the only definition of their self.

I haven’t read any post other than the OP, so my post is my own experience and not based on any other posters experiences.

Yes absolutely. You have to be able to give the words and vocabulary to your children so they can express what they see and how they feel. and for some children is very important they can do that because they are the ones victimes of abuse and racism based on religion, skin colour, etc which is not their fault. The parents are giving them the tools to understand and to talk about it.

As a parent of a child who is of mixed heritage I have absolutely had this conversation with them. She’s 7.