Are you raising a child with dual heritage? Sense check needed.

[PoliteSquid]

I don’t know how to ask this without sounding really patronising, but please educate me.
Someone in my fitness class was talking about her DD who is 6. They had been to a World Cup rugby match. Her DD noticed the flags and asked if they were there for the rugby. Her mum said they were there because some people don’t like black and brown people like her DD!!!! The mum is white, so I guess the bio dad must be black or Asian.
Is that the kind of conversations people are having to have with their very young kids? It has shocked me. Maybe I’m out of touch even more because my kids are young adults so I’ve forgotten how much primary school age kids know.

We are light-skinned native English speakers skilled immogrants living in a European country where the far-right has a good grip on the people and nazism. Our white skin means we pass as non-immigrants until we open our mouths and now we get to experience just a smidgen of the racism that darker skinned people experience so regularly. And it is nasty. That little kids whose skin is a different colour to those around them have to experience any racism in 2025 is disgusting. And yet here we are.

But that isn’t what they’re there for. They’re to bully and intimidate people.

I don’t think it’s ’wrong ‘to be frightened’ and it’s certainly not wrong to be frightened about the safety of our children but I don’t think it’s fair to put fear into our children particularly if they are happy wee souls going about their business in a microcosm that currently doesn’t require them to be afraid. If we move into a climate where their lives are actively in danger then that’s different. If Putin launches a ground invasion for example I would certainly be telling my kids there is an immediate threat to their lives. But currently I would stick to the rhetoric that there are a small amount of people who are angry and explain why.

@muggartThats a nicely sanitised version of the truth. A lot of us who are black/brown, know that the majority of people supporting this movement actually have the biggest issue with immigrants who aren’t white, or immigrants who are Muslim

I had conversations with my children youngest is now 24, they both experienced some racism at school. DH was picked on more as we had moved even further North by then because he ‘spoke posh’. We are in the North and he was born here but he sounds more like us as Southerners.

I think showing fear is one of the worst things any of us can do to our children, they pick up fear and phobias, likes and dislikes. When people say chip off the old block, it makes sense.

The flags don’t upset me, whilst I know some are there for nefarious reasons which I do not like there are genuine concerns about immigration and people who call everyone racist who voice this are part of the issue. The conversations needed being quashed are one of the reasons why racism has risen.

I'm confused, can you clarify? Are you saying that the child asked about the flags at the rugby match? OR that after having been to one, they later saw flags displayed by Faragists and the child asked if they were related to the rugby?

Considering my bi racial kid experienced racism in the early years of primary school, yes, we’ve had these conversations from a young age. I’m white btw. Never shied away from it, because people don’t shy away from being racist towards them.

I can assure you there isn't a racist born that could make me hate myself, and by raising my daughter's awareness, she is also very confident in who she is.

Her skin colour is a big deal, but she doesn't allow it to hinder her in any way. It's possible to be aware of yourself and your surroundings AND triumph.

Division? Nope. Both her and my friendship groups are like a model UN. Knowing and accepting who we are and what we face opens our hearts to others; as the last thing we want to be, is as hateful as those who would use our race against us.

I think that is a horrible thing to say to a child.

DS is autistic and I wouldn't tell him that only 30% of autistic people are in work in the UK.

Raise your child to be confident and resilient and support them in dealing with any issues that come up. Telling them some unknown, random people don't like them for the colour of their skin or that they'll probably really struggle to get a job is just really damaging IMO even if it's true.

I’m white and have these conversations with my children.

They asked me why some fucking idiot people had painted the roundabouts in our town and I had to explain racism, and hate, and the underlying message behind people suddenly flying the flag.

I couldn’t imagine how hard it would be having to have that conversation if they were on the receiving end of that kind of hate.

But that's the point, isn't it? If you aren't white in this country, then you've already moved into a climate where there is reason to be afraid - there is no need to wait for Putin to invade because the aggression and hostility is coming from within our own country. The level of racism is off the scale and people do feel threatened. And it shouldn't simply be reduced to being about lives being in danger, it is also about dealing with the relentless everyday racism that hurts people and wears them down over time.

Very few mixed race kids will have the privilege of living in a bubble where this doesn't touch them. Of course their parents should talk to them about it, and they are not under any obligation to present the racists' perspective as being somehow reasonable or rational. It isn't.

@Farticus101

I can guarantee about 99.9% of those people using the flags in this way also don't like black and brown people. It is not just about illegal migration

This. My daughter is mixed race and I have been very blunt about the fact that people flying the flag may have racist motives.

I have always said to her that there’s nothing intrinsically racist about flying the English flag but that it has a tendency to be coopted by racists and she needs to be alert to it.

I think you’re right and I think that Islamophobia is one of the big forces driving it, not helped of course by widely publicised extremists killing people in the name of their religion.

My white kids (one still primary aged) understand the relentlessness of micro aggressions, stereotypes and outright racism. They’ve seen me actively identify and deal with it within my job and certainly know how to be an ally within their community.

Reform is certainly not helping but successive governments refusing to deal with organised crime groups who were ramping up illegal immigration decades ago, should have the responsibility at their door. Conservatives at the heart of it just sweeping it under the carpet. It’s the rampant current situation that is making the settled communities more at risk of racism.

Working class white people are a community that is known to have struggled educationally in this country since the eighties. They are also the community that have had the industrial/factory industry ripped away from them leaving many of them reliant on benefits. Due to these factors they have been very easy to radicalise by National Front style organisations who have used the threat to the welfare state as leverage to encourage hatred. To my mind it’s not that dissimilar to any radical element who has misread literature or misunderstood history. It comes down to education always which is why our children are SO important.

If we now have more and more people explaining the history of racism in soundbites we are just continuing the hate cycle and society suffers off the back of it. Just saying ‘they hate you because of the colour of your skin’ is not enough. Be educated, trap the kids on car journeys and really talk about it. Listen to historical podcasts. Read books. Encourage them to read books. Hash it out. Debate it. Don’t just say people hate you and leave it at that.

This! The drip, drip effect, that over time can cause ill health physically, and mentally. The stress of constant racism is very hard to live with, and it needs to be talked about, and young people growing up, likely to experience this, need to be prepared. It is a dereliction of duty, in my opinion to not build up the children's amour, to be able to withstand the hate, that they will encounter.

Let's see if I got this right. They went to World Cup rugby match and they saw the flags of the two countries playing in the match, and the mom said people are racist for that ?
So basically this stupid woman does not realise that the reason people wave the flags is just to support their team, right ?
Either she has severe mental health issues or she was having you on. No normal human being can be that daft.

Mine aren’t dual heritage (we are dual nationality but we’re white). I wouldn’t say it like that, but yes, I would explain how the flag has been adopted as a symbol of far right nationalism, not pride in the country as it should be. And there are people who don’t want anyone who is different here. My dc already understand this because of the political complexities of my home country, which has a well documented history of racism and xenophobia.

Absolutely, I am fully in favour of talking about it and properly educating children around all the nuances of the situation. I don't think anyone is suggesting that parents should just say "people hate you" and leave it at that. And I don't know a single mixed race family that has chosen to approach it in that way.

At the same time, I think it's important to name racism for what it is - irrational prejudice - and not to dress it up in a narrative that presents it as a rational response to something in the external environment. Saying that the flags are there to "remind the government" of who they are supposed to represent makes it sound like there are good reasons for people flying them, when we all know that the flags are there because the racist Tommy Robinson has asked people to put them up.

Of course, it is important to talk about how a lack of education and opportunity can make people vulnerable to far right narratives etc. But we have to be careful in doing this that we don't inadvertently sound like we are justifying or excusing the racist behaviour.

My mixed race child is an adult now. She went to a very diverse and wonderfully integrated primary school, which was like a perfect little bubble - a model of how the world could be. We bought our house to get her into that school because we felt that it would be such a positive environment for her to grow up in. We did, of course, have lots of conversations about racism with her as she was growing up, but it was only when she went to secondary school that the reality actually hit her. She had somehow assumed that racism was mostly something that happened in the past and it was a shock to her to find that it was still so prevalent. Not helped by the massive increase in racism that happened around the time of the Brexit referendum.

DD has often said since that, while she appreciated the idyllic environment that was her primary school, she wishes that she had been made more aware of the ongoing realities of racism at an earlier age, as it wouldn't have been such a shock to her when she encountered it for herself. We don't do our kids any favours by wrapping them up in cotton wool.

I'm assuming it was about the flags on the roads rather than the flags at the actual rugby match.

I'm shocked to read that statement from that mum. I'm a bit disappointed and deflated but not too surprised to read from other posters here that agree with her.

I taught my dc from a young age when they started asking questions about life in general that some humans are good and some are bad, some are in the middle.

I taught them about colonisation and slavery but also about Arab, Spanish, America, other countries' war and fights, human rights' abuse even among themselves within their countries and continents too.

I taught them about the good and bad things happening in the world. I taught them that some people love or hate others for different reasons, it could be because you're rich or poor, loud or quiet, rude or too polite, a girl or boy, disabled or not, too nice or not nice enough, the colour of your skin, your hair colour, lightskin or darkskin, your nationality or ethnicity, etc. I never made 'race' the big bad wolf because I believe all hate is hate.

I taught them about many countries (including Britain) where people of the same race hate each other because they're of different religions or ethnicities or families or clans or tribes or social class. Some of these countries are at war right now and some are just casually abusing and killing each other left, right and center for being different (yet same "race"). Why would people hating others because they're of a different race or skin colour then be the worst thing ever?! Nope, not to me and thankfully, not to my dc.

Those who don't like us or treat us badly because of our skin colour or ethnicity are just as bad as those who don't like us or treat us badly because of a million other reasons. This includes people of the same race as us. We put them all in the same basket and treat them accordingly: ignore/ report/ respond where possible/ call the police/ block/ delete/ fight back/ defend yourself, etc. All depends on the situation and what it calls for.

We don't go about thinking all bad treatment is because of skin colour unless there's absolutely no other explanation. Even so, the abuser is the problem and not us. We don't give it any other thought besides take whatever action is needed. Yes we feel bad and comfort each other if we've been treated badly for any reason whatsoever, not just because of race. It would eat at our heart and self esteem if we did otherwise and cause unnecessary bitterness, resentment and anger towards innocent people because of the bad eggs among them. I wouldn't want decent people to do the same to me. I cba about the arseholes everywhere.

There are bad eggs in every group: rich or poor, man or woman, black, brown, white, middle class, upper class, working class, Cmhristian, muslim, vegan, etc.

Some people use the flag because they're racists. Some use it because they're proud of their country just like every other country and their flag. Some people are decent, some aren't. Not the end of the world.

FWIW, I'm black and so are my dc.

You SHOULD be disgusted it's being used this way if anything

Oh, it absolutely is. The number of flags around here increased exponentially once Farage announced his intention to deport legal immigrants with ILR.

That's very interesting about your DD @MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack my DC are mixed race and they are so much more sheltered than DH and I were at the same age I think.

I suppose its the sort of thing you only know what the best decision would have been once they are adults. My DC are in a bit of a middle class bubble which I worry might leave them a bit naive, but on the other hand I did not enjoy my primary school at all whereas my DC both have so many more friends and opportunities than I did at the same age.

My kids are older now but if this had been going on when they were younger, then yes, I would have explained it to them in a similar way.

Before we moved house and they ended up in a low diversity school, they went to a very diverse primary which was actually less than 50% white and was brilliant for their early social experiences, but did mean they were a bit 'colourblind', so conversations about racism were quite difficult for them to grasp.

My nieces and nephew are dual heritage and live in a village with pretty low diversity - I have had some eye opening conversations with my SIL about some of their experiences and to a much, much lesser degree have experienced it myself when I've been out on my own with the girls. Nothing overt, but some of the looks 🤨

We're white British but have an Eastern European surname from DH's grandad. We quite often experience a low level of surprise when people who have only ever seen our names written down meet us and we have an English accent and start asking questions about where the name is from.

I'd never really thought anything of it before (most likely because of white privilege) but I'm starting to realise that while not as insidious and overt as the racism black and brown people experience, it isn't always benign.

Beginning to wonder how long it will be before the xenophobia and bigotry ramps up to include families like ours and not just those who are black, brown or speak with an accent.

I am white so know I don't get a say, but this is what I would think too.