Neighbours - what the hell?

[Allisnotlost1]

Posting here for traffic, previous thread here for context.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5353167-difficult-neighbours

TLDR: nice but filthy neighbours, at least four adults and two kids in the house, multiple animals, what can I do?

I managed to get help from Environmental health who issued a clearance notice for the rubbish at the front of the house. I’ve since found out that one of the older boys has a girlfriend who is now pregnant. The plan is for them to live between her mum’s house and where he is now.

There are now nine dogs living there and one is expecting puppies soon.

Ive also been told that the father previously went to prison for domestic violence against the wife and youngest child. I’m quite confused that he’s living there if that’s true but I guess if he’s off probation and no order in place then what can anyone do, I’ve never heard violence but a fair amount of arguing and some pretty awful things said by him to her, but mainly I’m concerned given that it must be incredibly stressful to be so overcrowded.

Is there anything I could or should do given the imminent arrival of a baby into this situation? (YANBU) Or should I shut the fuck up and move? (YABU).

I haven't voted yet - are you renting or owner occupied? Have you reported the overcrowding to anyone? Made Noise complaints?

Have you ever spoken to them directly about the noise and mess?

Own, I think they own too. Noise isn’t that much of an issue to be honest. I’ve tried asking about rubbish on the front garden offered to help get it ready for the tip as I was taking stuff from my own DIY, told them about a very cheap collection service.

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repairs/check_if_your_home_is_overcrowded_by_law#which-rooms-count-as-bedrooms

Shelter guidance on the rules around overcrowding. They have always been based on Victorian norms which are not what we expect today.

Save yourself any more grief and move if you can. It's unlikely to radically improve (or to any useful extent anyway).

If EH have ordered them to clear rubbish then that’s about as involved as anyone externally can get. There’s no law around how many animals can be owned, so if the animals are in good condition and not aggressive, there’s no not something an animal welfare organisation can take action on. Some people do just live in overcrowded homes. It’s probably not nice for them, but if they own then nobody can do anything about it. The parents have the agency to ask their adult children to move out, if they don’t want to live that way.

The younger couple will be asked about their living situation as part of maternity care, and concern may be shown about the baby living in overcrowded conditions, but in an otherwise caring home and if the baby is well looked after, it’s not an actionable issue.

You say they’re nice, not particularly noisy, there’s no sign of violence or aggression, they don’t hassle you. I’d just leave them be, and think about moving if the garden situation begins to build up again.

1 Mind your OWN business.

1. Move house yourself.
2. Read some books such as how not to be a judgemental busybody.

Are they over crowded OP? How many bedrooms?

A four bed house is not over-crowded with four adults and two boys.

Couple in bed1
couple in bed 2
boy in bed 3 (with girlfriend)
boy in bed 4

There's no noise problem. The only real issues you've listed are rubbish in the front garden, and some name calling.

They are a couple with four children, two of whom are adults, and one of the adults has a girlfriend now living with him. So not necessarily overcrowded, depending on how you define it, but they’re using a living room as a bedroom.

I wouldn’t complain about the noise because I think it’s the least of the problems, but I can hear them all day every day yes.

In my previous thread I listed the problems, the main one for me is the smell - it seeps into my house through the floorboards and if I sit in the garden I burn incense, because it smells of their house and dog shit.

Do you live alone?

Last month they were a couple with 3 children and 4 dogs

I’d love to mind my own business and have, I couldn’t care less how they want to live. But the smell comes into my house, prevents me from sitting in the garden at times because it’s just unpleasant, the number of dogs and the noise that creates because they’re unsupervised, the fact that there have been rats in the gardens all force me to take notice.

Obviously moving is a last resort, and i need buyers to see past the rubbish, the torn fabric hanging in the window, the smell, the barking etc.

Yes, that’s what I thought, but since then they’ve told me themselves that both older kids are there, one with girlfriend and baby expected, and that the number of dogs is more than I thought. They’re puppies, so had thought they’d all been sold but apparently not, and more now expected. The developments are why I started a new thread, as I wonder if the baby and massive dog fest might mean any possibility of help. For them and also for me 😭

Cooksmart
Do you live alone?

No, but where are you going with that?

let me guess you don’t like their cooking smells

Oh you’re going there! Funny. No, they’re white and I’m mixed race so you probably need to find another tree

You live alone?

I just answered you - no.

Any children?
is the person(s) you live with share this view of them?

What hypothesis are you trying to prove? No kids, partner shares the view but they work away during the week, sometimes more than a week at a time, so less impact day to day.

This attitude is exactly why and how child abusers and parents neglecting children get away with it. It IS everyone's business. Thank God some people care enough to make the appropriate reports . . .

has your partner ever gone over and spoken with them? Or just you?

If there are regular litters of puppies every year and the puppies are being sold for profit then you can enquire with the local authority if they are registered as a breeder, which they must be by law. This won’t apply if they’re just having “whoops” puppies every so often and giving them away; it also won’t prevent them from keeping the number of dogs they currently have.

So you’d be happy to live next door to neighbours such as the op describes and you’d be fine about it?
What if moving house isn’t an option? Who for instance is going to want. To I’ve in the ops house with the current neighbours next door?

How have they acquired 5 extra dogs since your last thread?

How many dogs do you have?

”overcrowding” doesn’t have any meaning in an owner occupied property. It for renting, particularly relating to the size of property social renters at entitled to.

OP I think environmental health is your main option.

You should report to social services that a male who has been in prison for domestic abuse is again living in the home with children and an unborn baby and the domestic abuse is continuing, as social services may not be aware and have concerns about that. It doesn’t matter whether there is a criminal justice order or not. Also let them know about the number of dogs and home condition as this is particularly worrying with small children/ a baby due.