Is there a worrying class divide with parenting?

[teaandcupcake]

I saw a tweet (and subsequent TikTok) about this and found it interesting.

The author of the tweet and the girl on TikTok were basically saying they notice the way their middle-class friends parent their small kids is screen-free, lots and lots of books, lots of time and attention. Their toddlers can read and write. In contrast, teacher friends at deprived primaries have shared stories of reception starters in nappies, children who have no idea how to turn the page of a book or use a knife and fork.

The concern being that the divide between middle-class and working-class children is going to be so vast in the future we ‘can’t even fathom it right now’

I found it interesting as the topic of reception children starting school without reaching basic milestones has been discussed on here many times before but not whether it’s class issue and what’s causing this.

i used to watch it as a child too. oddly i did still turn out ok in spite of being allowed tv and love to write and make up stories but maybe i am just lucky

The underclass is growing exponentially from what I've seen in my working life over the past 20 odd years.

For those who've read the My Brilliant Friend books,this is arguably what Ferrante depicts. The sociologist Edward Banfield did a very informative study of a different southern Italian neighbourhood with similar issues. The findings he made could be applied in a lot of cases.

I think stuff like that is fine. It's nice to introduce children to one's old favourites.

I put mine in the pushchair in the garden and work outside, he sometimes will sit mesmerised and watch the leaves blowing on the trees like its TV! I do voice notes for work while pushing the pram. Play pen on the lawn worked well for a time, the outdoors is absorbing and stimulating in a way that indoors is not. I sorted a kitchen cupboard out to just have plastic and silicone stuff in so now he empties it and plays with it all.. DH put this catch thing on the doors so he can't trap his fingers. Play mags have been a great toy for keeping him busy. He's just starting to enjoy a yoto player. The more you stick with screen free the easier it gets as their capacity to be entertained and captivated by the quieter things in life grows. Screens set the bar for stimulation so high, its worrisome.

That sounds lovely. It's great to hear about children getting back their natural wonder & interest in the world.

i am glad that worked for you. unfortunately for DS that set up would not have worked for him. i do guess he is on the fussier side like the antenatal reunion this was at 4 weeks before we even caved and used the screen some babies did not cry, some babies cried once he managed to 4 times within that 2 hour reunion 😂🤣😂

My daughter was like that. She's 8 now and so creative and perceptive. My grandmother had 11 and always maintained that the difficult babies were the most intelligent 😁

that does give me hope. i have been told he has such great focus when i can get him to focus on something. one thing that surprised me was he figured out one of his lock toys without me even showing him. i had just left him to it as he did seem engrossed by it when i gave it to him and took the opportunity to tidy. i knew he would know how to open the normal door but did not expect him to open all 3 doors on the box 🥹

I'm old enough to remember my granny complaining about my little cousins watching Bill and Ben because it would mean they'd never learn to talk.

I also remember parents being condemned for taking books or colouring things to restaurants to entertain them as it was just lazy parenting. Imagine my surprise when screens condemned and books and colouring things promoted as a positive.

People love criticising parents, particularly mothers. Some of the virtue signallers make me laugh like the mother from playgroup who was horrified that my children were allowed to watch TV. She would give her three year old a baby bottle with chocolate milk and a talking book to listen to. Not sure how healthy that was.

Life can be tough, people being judgemental makes it harder.

@JustATeacherwhat a beautifully written post.

I’m sorry you had such a terrible time and pleased you’ve come out the other side with your son.

I think you’re right, if you don’t know that ‘better’ exists because you’ve never seen it, how do you know to strive for it or even where to begin.

i see the snobs are out in full force with this one with the sympathetic “aw the poor poors don’t know how to raise their kids” 🙄

don’t know what class id be considered on here probably the dreaded one below the working one seeing as mother was unemployed pretty much the whole time and on benefits but much of her parenting and things she did is apparently middle class according to this site. Don’t even get me started on myself having my first child at 16 apparently should be a terrible parent but my kids are both top of their classes at school. Don’t let them vegetate in front of the tv either and they don’t even have ipads

Leaves me very confused, born in the 2000s btw I only learned about this class stuff when I started using mumsnet. Don’t think anyone under 30 thinks about it

While it’s tempting to focus on parenting or class culture, the evidence (2023 study) suggests it’s income and educational level of parents that affects school progress, rather than reading to children. It found the time parents spent helping children with maths, art and music had almost no effect on their school progress as rated by teachers.

Instead, family class and income, and the parents’ educational level, were much more important. It’s panel data from the Millennium Cohort Study survey on over 8,000 children in the UK.

Time spent helping their children with maths, reading to them and going to libraries made children only a few percentage points more likely to be classed as above average or well above average by teachers. Going to bed at a regular time also helped the children slightly.

However, having parents with degrees, or who were well-off or from a high socio-economic class approximately doubled the chance of their children being assessed as above average.

Ah, he'll settle down, mine was a rocket who never stopped crying, moaning, velcro child, from birth, he was the only newborn whimpering 24 hours until he realised he could cry really loud, non stop.
He is 10 now, doing very well, intelligent, still issue's with emotional regulation but it gets better every year, he wasn't well from allergens, hernia, colic, tongue tie, and eventually diagnosed with severe sensory processing at 2 years old.
I was envious of the other new mums.

i am glad he is doing better. i do wonder if i am to blame for how highly strung he is. i could not establish breastfeeding fully as i had a c-section and complications. my milk did not fully come in and i struggled to hold him. i asked for help holding him with the midwife but got firmly told that at home i wouldn’t be having someone help hold me. i had the restraint to not say that at home i won’t have tubes and an iv drip attached to me either… the first two days we really tried to push through with breast feeding and the colostrum i had harvested. by day three one of the midwives suggested formula as well as breast feeding and he was like a changed baby. but i do worry those first two days taught him he needed to be loud to be heard

Not in the slightest, tiniest bit responsible, some babies/children are just have high needs, they need far more planning and emotional support, than the average child, not to scare you but ime it can be an early sign of extra needs. I have two DC, My first never cried, does he like to be close to you but never seems happy, my DS had zero patience, he would go from zero to 100 in a second. If I stopped pushing his pram for a traffic light he'd go mad instantly, I had to rock him when we stopped.
Do you think that your little one has sensory issues and control issues? Speak to your GP.
I blamed myself too, DS is on the spectrum.

@motheroflittledragon Sending hugs. The memories of those days are still raw.
I used to joke that if DS was my DH we'd get divorced, he was my boss, ruled my life, now I see it as his need for security. 🥺

sounds like ds. three weeks ago he threw the mother of all tantrums at a soft play. it was not busy so god knows what triggered him he was not happy till we took him out. we started doing soft play while DH does the food shop as he was very clearly not having that anymore and made his opinion come across loud and clear the last time we dared to take him to morrisons

Not at all your fault. This is very common after a C-Section. Some kids are just very sensitive.

i know and the rational side of me says that but i do still in the back mind blame myself a little.

Why are you assuming that the only way for a working class/poor kid to become a GP is going to a Grammar School?

I went to a sink Comp in the 1980s on a notorious housing estate in South Wales where people smoked weed in the toilets. None of us were rich or middle class. We all did our GCSEs and some chose to stay and do A Levels. Loads of us went to University and became teachers or worked for Local Government, a few became GPs or nurses, one did Law. I'm a paralegal. My brother did Music at the Royal Welsh College. We grew up with a single mum on benefits in a council house with a leaky roof.

Got nothing to do with Grammar Schools which are a mostly anachronistic relic of days when working class children weren't expected to achieve much academically and just go down the pit. These days schools encourage those are interested and able to consider University (or whatever type of further education interests them as there are multiple different options all of which are valid) to apply. And there are so many more options today than just civil servant teacher doctor etc. My son is studying Computer Game Development, his friend is doing Cyber Security. And yes there are jobs in these fields (I have friends who earn good money in these areas).

The manufacturing/heavy industries/mining and even many of the shop jobs which working class kids went into in the 1950s,60s and 70s are gone anyway. It's a very different world and trying to address todays challenges by "bringing back" stuff that helped a relative minority of children in 1965 is a bit pointless.

My dad also went to a Grammar School from a working class background. He didn't become a GP because in those days going to University was beyond the means of most working class families regardless of their children's intellect level (fees, accommodation etc. I'm not sure what level of support existed other than scholarships which were few and far between). He was expected to leave school at 16, get a job and contribute to the family income. So it most definitely didn't help everyone.

Chat to your health nurse, more recently DS has been found to have a genetic disorder commonly associated with ASD.
It gets easier.
I done a parenting course on sensory issues through CAMH'S it really helped.
I'd say the material is online.

thank you i will look into it

Back to the class issue. 😅
It is great to see teenagers and young adults breaking the mould. The local school wc areas has a few teachers who attended the school as students.
My nieces and nephews have on the road to a professional career.

Why are you assuming that the only way for a working class/poor kid to become a GP is going to a Grammar School?

I went to a sink Comp in the 1980s on a notorious housing estate in South Wales where people smoked weed in the toilets. None of us were rich or middle class. We all did our GCSEs and some chose to stay and do A Levels. Loads of us went to University and became teachers or worked for Local Government, a few became GPs or nurses, one did Law. I'm a paralegal. My brother did Music at the Royal Welsh College. We grew up with a single mum on benefits in a council house with a leaky roof.

Got nothing to do with Grammar Schools which are a mostly anachronistic relic of days when working class children weren't expected to achieve much academically and just go down the pit. These days schools encourage those are interested and able to consider University (or whatever type of further education interests them as there are multiple different options all of which are valid) to apply. And there are so many more options today than just civil servant teacher doctor etc. My son is studying Computer Game Development, his friend is doing Cyber Security. And yes there are jobs in these fields (I have friends who earn good money in these areas).

The manufacturing/heavy industries/mining and even many of the shop jobs which working class kids went into in the 1950s,60s and 70s are gone anyway. It's a very different world and trying to address today's challenges by "bringing back" stuff that helped a relative minority of children in 1965 is a bit pointless.

My dad also went to a Grammar School from a working class background. He didn't become a GP because in those days going to University was beyond the means of most working class families regardless of their children's intellect level (fees, accommodation etc. I'm not sure what level of support existed other than scholarships which were few and far between). He was expected to leave school at 16, get a job and contribute to the family income. So it most definitely didn't help everyone.