Labour are lifting the 2 child benefit cap

[PuppyKeep]

AIBU that this is a terrible decision?

So people with ten children - are they getting a larger house to give all children space? Are they giving all ten proper attention, particularly with schoolwork?

Some families will be getting the equivalent of really large salaries - why are they “in poverty” yet the schmuck in a job on half as much is fine?

*we’re going to need to increase the birth rate, that should have said

Working parents are struggling to afford the school dinners. It isn't always those who don't work we are talking about.

How many have ten kids?

No we shouldn’t!

the fact is AI is changing the world whether we like it or not. There are going to be less jobs in the future, certainly professional roles. I can dot role now that 25 years ago when I started, took at least 5 people to do. The computer does it all for me now and I just do the last bit. Chat GBT can write documentation we would have had a team to take days to write.

the government should be embracing the declining birth rate. Quality now not quantity. Every child needs to be invested in so every person will be employed. There should be zero unemployment rate in 30 year’s time but to do this people should be being trained for the jobs not children picking what they want to do, graduating and finding there is no work anymore as AI can do it better.

And there's the typical let's blame everything on the rich and stop everybody else being responsible! I'm not rich but I'm not poor on benefits either and neither do I want to paying more taxes because people on benefits make shit life choices! If they choose not to ever go out to work and build a career and finances, that's their own failing! Some of these people could have been financially well off if they'd got off their arse! Whilst they can claim everything free, they see no reason to bother.

Funny that everyone you knew worked in the 1980s, given that unemployment peaked at 11.9% in 1984 and remained stubbornly high for most of the decade.

Halcyon days indeed.

I think people are much of a muchness actually, although general material conditions are better now than in 1906 obviously.

I have one DD for financial reasons. I would have loved more but I couldnt afford the childcare so I made my peace with one. The people who have multiple kids are either already able to afford it or just struggle on in poverty regardless. The birth rate is falling & we need more babies to look after all of us when we are elderly.

Britain's most shameless mother? Tattooed Mandy wants her TEN kids to have FIFTY grandchildren... all to keep benefits rolling in - Mirror Online https://share.google/gJa5OvqPJGMBS1dTg

Single mum who's had 10 children insists she 'doesn't have babies to get benefits' https://share.google/KFDZrYjyDEESUit5f

https://innerstrength.zone/life/woman-with-10-kids-from-5-men-is-milking-welfare-and-has-a-new-goal/?fbclid=IwY2xjawNJwkJleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHmo6ShT2qfNcPGUP2i9dEvgrzvHYSdW7feOd5YA1NSRkL6cANhKm8OFskcGi_aem_-Jpsar_mzWbW9TNC2f5ISg

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3280676/Mother-12-claims-40-000-benefits-wants-NHS-pay-tummy-tuck-improve-sex-life.html

When you Google these things there's no shortage of stories!

Yep @BananaPeels

Could you provide a breakdown of that calculation please?

Yeah but how many do you know? Most I know have either two or three.

Yes, that’s certainly not the 1980s I remember…miners strike, recession, high unemployment.

But again- why is that my, or anyone else’s fault, or responsibility? Ask the parents if it’s fair to be bringing children into poverty - they’re the ones doing it! - did they not think this through before they made the decision? Or were they enabled to make poor choices, knowing someone else will pick up the slack?

It can't be assumed that kids will all grow up and go into the care profession! It's not the most appealing of jobs and with today's cost of living it would be life restricting financially. This is why we always had foreign labour that was willing to do it whilst house sharing and building up a nest egg.

My partner's aunt has worked in the care profession for many years and now she's reaching retirement, her body is knackered from the strain of lifting people about.

What evidence do you have that the change is due to a change of attitude? How can you be so confident that it's this rather than any of the other factors such as lack of availability of social housing, failure of wages to keep up with inflation, withdrawal of essential support services for families, widespread introduction of zero hours contracts leading to job insecurity, impossibly expensive childcare costs... Because if you're going to argue for withholding help from children, you'd need to be very certain that the problem is feckless parents and not any of those other things.

But let's assume you're right and it is feckless parents. Is the solution to punish the children? Don't we need to break the cycle? And doesn't that start with making sure that kids have a nutritious meal in school, so they are in the best position to learn? If we just scrap everything I've been arguing and I concede that the parents are shitty, then OK - how do we solve this? Do we just leave the kids to rot and / or spiral into crime? Or should society intervene?

Whichever way I come at this - even from a completely self-interested standpoint of wanting to live in a functioning society in the future - the answer seems to be the same. Tax payer money spent making sure kids' most basic needs are being met is surely money well spent. Even if we accidentally reward some "feckless" parents along the way.

@FlyMeSomewhere I can see where you get your attitude towards those who claim benefits if you constantly read that sort of thing.

Those deciding not to have children are generally responsible people who have thought it through, long and hard, and decided it doesn’t work. It feels unfair that others not making responsible decisions will receive public funds for additional children.

I'm not in friendship circles with people on benefits! Doesn't mean they aren't there! Google as many news stories as you want, they openly advertise their existence!
We used know people, the woman had 3 kids by the time she was 20, she never started getting pushed into work until the kids were all teenagers, the then 13 year old daughter used to dream of having a baby because her school mate had just had one, 13 years old and sat with a pack of ten cigs and bottles of blue wkd all bought by the parents, the 15 year old son and his mates would pissed up all over the house! The 13 year old eventually went on to leave school and go straight into a council flat with a baby on the way, saw her a couple of years on, she had two kids, the boyfriend was still unemployed. The friendship group dissolved and god knows how many kids she's had by now! By that's how it all starts and then becomes multi generational unless the cycle is broken.

These are the "outlier" stories - headline grabbing precisely because they are NOT the norm. But they are spread far and wide because they suit the simple narrative of "Scroungers taking the piss". They stir up resentment and set vulnerable groups against each other - so instead of asking the important questions such as "Why do the rich have legal ways to avoid their full tax burden?" or "Why doesn't the royal family pay any corporation tax on the tens of millions of pounds they make every year from the crown estates?", people are turning on each other. Much better to keep the little people sniping among themselves. You're falling for it.

I am well aware of this, ironically I am a carer, albeit in the NHS. I think it's fair to assume some of them will, is it not? We will also need doctors, nurses, care home managers, surgeons, lawyers to assist us in our old age. We need young people paying in. At no point did I say we shouldn't have immigrants who want to work in the care sector. You're right, it's not the most appealing of jobs, largely down to the way its looked down on by society - but when the time comes we need it I would hope you end up with someone like me who genuinely does care- not just someone who 'wants to flat share and build a nest egg'.

You don't have to have ten kids to be on benefits. People like us who both work and get top up UC are much common. God you sound snobby.

@ProcrastinatorsAnonymous but surely the way to improve your children’s wellbeing is to have fewer of them!

And it’s not just money - I was talking to a cousin - one of six siblings. She said that she would never have six dcs: due to logistics they didn’t have holidays, days out were logistically impossible, her dm was always focused on the baby etc etc. She said she loves her siblings but truthfully her dm should have called a halt at three dcs.

Absolutely. Doesn't make lurid headlines though, so people in your situation get totally erased from this conversation.

Same here. If this goes through I will never vote labour again. Never